Selling/Trading my collection

[Highside]

Hi Randy, (?): This is John and I'm in the Riverside area of Souther California... Regards, John

[SLOT DYNASTY]

John:
I was in no way hammering on you about your Golden Nugget. Only trying to warn you as to what you had,
and probably not using my choice of words correctly. When I commented on this, I had not seen your earlier
post that said "you knew that the Nugget was a Cherry, and still had the cherries". So, sorry for that. I may
know who you are, and have met you before, as Orin Yeager was a true friend of mine, and many others in
this hobby. He was a true gentleman, and is sorely missed. Several years, his booth was next to mine, at the
"Fun Fair" in Pasadena. I too learned a lot from him. As for your Silver Palace, it appears that you do know
the full story about them as well. I knew the person that was building them, many years ago, in San Jose,
California. And please, DO NOT take your Golden Nugget to the back yard, to put it out of it's misery.
Someone is sure to enjoy it for many more years, as much as you have.
If you feel you know who I am, and still want to chat old times, after my comments, drop me a line with
your phone number, to (slotdynasty@sbcglobal.net).
Regards, Bill

[Dave]

If you think I was hammering you then I apologize.

I was just pointing out what I observed about the Rol-A-Top and Treasury.

Some people in this forum are very sensitive to the reproduction machines that are on the market. Especially the Golden Nugget machines.

You stated at the very beginning that the Golden Nugget was a converted machine.

When I saw the photo it is exactly what I expected and I didn't make any comments on it.

I was just trying to inform you and other folks what you have regarding the Rol-A-Top and the Treasury.

The penny Treasury with gumball vendor is a very desirable machine. However, the vast majority of them out there do not have the correct bottom casting.

Perhaps WatlingBoy can shed additional information regarding the Watlings as he is the most knowledgeable person on the forum when it comes to Treasuries and Rol-A-Tops.

Rol-A-Top and Treasuries are relatively high dollar machines when it comes to 3 reelers. I would hope that people (both the owner and potential buyers) would appreciate being educated on what they really have.

Pointing out issues is not slamming a machine or the owner of the machine.

Again, sorry if you felt I was slamming you.

Dave

[watlingboy]

Another one I wasn't going to get involved in but here I am. Yes, some of the forum members get a little over zealous about repros, you stated what it was and that should have been the end of it. I wasn't going to comment on the Watlings as you simply said "Here they are make me an offer", you made no claims other than "Rare" on the penny. Dave pointed out what he thought were possible problems with them and that is considered slamming. I'm a little confused, I know people want to get as much as possible for their machines but if you have been sold a machine and some dishonest guy has taken advantage of you, you can't expect the next guy to buy it without knowing what he is getting. In the 80's when Watling machines were in huge demand, the hucksters were making up whatever would bring them the most money. I saw people at auctions and the Fun Fair pay $5000 and $5500 for completely make up Treasurys. Many collectors didn't know what was correct or incorrect and you now have all these machines floating around in the market place. If you have Sting Ray Corvette with a replacement motor, the car takes a huge hit in value compared to a numbers matching car but no one gets upset, including the owner, with this information being out there because it is only correct for the new buyer to know exactly what he is buying. I am aware that people are faking those also but the honest guy wants the correct information known and that is why completely original cars get certified.

Regarding your machines, unfortunately the Treasury has a bottom vender casting off of a Watling Blue Seal. Once Watling introduced the Rol-A-Top line in 1935, every machine in that line had the large jackpot, not the small ones, those were used on the early 30's machine. This machine should have the large jackpots. To make that eagle fit, they ground off the tips of the wings, you can see how they are rounded. Your Treasury should have the gum ball vender with the Indian Head pennies at the bottom. The non Indian head penny vender was only used on the Rol-A-Tor but it had the large jackpots. It should also have fortune reel strips but the strips are replacements. The second coin should return out the front, if it returns out of the back of the head, the mech is a Blue Seal also. The Rol-A-Top is a bit of a mystery, I'm guessing the vender front was added to that machine also because the top casting is a foreign coin. By the time the foreign coin casting came out, the vender front machines were a thing of the past because giving mints not longer made the machine legal, laws had been rewritten to make them outdated. It is possible that one could have left the factory that way, yes, I guess it is possible but because the award card does not reflect gold award and the vender has gold award, it's probably swapped. You can check this by looking at the reel strips to see if they have gold award symbols on them. Closer inspection would tell exactly what has been done. Don't know about this being a foreign machine because most of the foreign machines were Bird of Paradise but the denomination badge is a reproduction and it is glued on the mech and not screwed on as it should be. The vender rod is also missing as stated.

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news , I think I have been very conservative and accurate in describing your machines but I'm not sure this will heal any of the ill feelings that have been generated on this forum.

Regards,

Watlingboy

[Mable]

Hi very interested in the castle frount I am in the UK but have a US address as well please can you give me the best price for it ???
Thank you
Have a good day

[markus]

I live in Switzerland - so please apologize if I am using sometimes the wrong grammar

At the age of 50, my wife and me started collecting slot machines two years ago. We didn't know much about slot machines. Since childhood, I was impressed by the Watling Bird of Paradise. We were on vacation in the United States and I saw such a machine in Ebay. A dealer was selling a quarter Bird of Paradise. I was impressed by the different colors and so we purchased this machine. Unfortunately I forgot to ask some very simple, but important questions as

- Is the machine an original or a reproduction? If original, what is the serial number?
- Are the cash box and back door and lock(s) original?
- Are there any non original parts on the machine?

As I had to learn later from members of this forum my Bird was painted the wrong way and the back door and key wasn't original. Well, it could have been worse.

There was another very rare machine we were interested in. But as a member of this forum, I asked questions to the seller and as the answers weren't honest - we decided not to buy. A very good decision as it turned out later.

Well, the mistake with the quarter Bird is my problem. Of course it would have been best if the seller told me about the non original things. But in the end I have to blame myself. I learnt it the hard way and purchased an additional original backdoor with an original lock and key.

So what did I learn?

I want honest people telling me the truth about the slot machines I am interested in. I want the seller to declare everything that is not original. I want to know what I buy.

When it comes to sell a machine in our collection and it turns out that there is something wrong with declaration and some parts are not original, we are not authorized to blame the buyer. On the contrary - we should say "thank you" to the person who told us about the inconsistencies and tell all about it to the next person who is interested in buying our machine.

Sometimes it is hard to hear the truth about a machine in a collection that started with our grandfather. What if this machine is a fake? Of course I wouldn't destroy it. But I also would not try to sell this machine without telling everything I know about it.

I am very happy, that some members in this forum are teaching me to ask questions and improving my knowledge about slot machines, even if it is tough to hear the truth.
Markus

[nvmos2]

We can always count on Watlingboy to inject calm and logic into a testy thread. Blessed are the peacemakers.

But quite frankly, the only one here who needs to apologize is Highside for his sarcastic response to the two informative comments on his photos. Why on earth is it “way too serious and uptight” to help/expect a seller to be honest and accurate in his dealings with potential buyers?

Highside;
I’m in no way implying that you are being dishonest in any way, but those comments on your photos were clearly intended to merely help you in a matter-of-fact manner to be more accurate in describing your machines.

Personally, I think the most interesting machine in the lot is the Silver Palace and I would hope that you could tell us more of what you know about it. You’ve already got one potential buyer express an interest in it. The only thing I know about these machines is what is in “Slot Machines on Parade”;
That book states there were only 75 of them made, but the casino never opened and they were sold to collectors while they were still brand new. Did you get one of the 75? That would be quite a find!
It is interesting to note that the one pictured in Parade does not have the casino name on it.
I seem to vaguely remember that someone a long time ago reproduced them, not for casino use, but to sell to (unsuspecting?) collectors. If that is the case, it is ironic that it is pictured in Parade on a page opposite another machine that has been battered with fakes; a Golden Nugget.

[Midcoast Vintage]

tom krahl reproduced them, as well as war eagles, castle fronts, and tons of other machines.
his interpretation of the law was "if you start with one original screw, and build a machine around it, it's an original machine because you started with an original part, and did what ever you needed to do to complete it.
I, AND OTHERS STRONGLY DISAGREED WITH THAT, BUT HE SAID HE ANALYZED THE LAW CAREFULLY, AND THAT WAS HIS INTERPRETATION... (I THINK JUSTIFICATION WOULD BE MORE CORRECT...
they have been made by others as well.
one waltzed into my ex-wife's antique mall a couple of months ago.
she bought it for $750. in good shape, but... still a repro.
the name of the casino I believe was going to be called THE SILVER PALACE".

[watlingboy]

The original match plates for these survived, so many have been knocked off using the original plates and are hard to tell form the originals. You have to know what to look for. Most of the originals had no jackpots and were attendant pay but I have seen an original with a jackpot, was it added later, I don't know. On the castle top or the back bonnet there was two threaded holes where a marquee was originally attached. Lots of knock offs were made, others with more knowledge than me can give more insight.

Watlingboy

[nvmos2]

Ref Silver Palace Drawbridge;

Very interesting; thanks for the info.
I tried a google search on this machine; they appear to come up for auction occasionally, but don't seem to command more than a regular High Top as far as price goes.
I guess it is fairly well known that they have been reproduced.
A repro wouldn't add anything to my collection, but might be nice for a guy who lives in a Tudor style house and wants one for the game room.
I would, however, pay a premium to get one of the original 75; I'm assuming they were sold with documentation that could authenticate it.

I would have liked to see Tom (RIP) test his legal theory in court; I think the judge would have laughed him out of the courthouse.