square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

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square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby Lol » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:45 am

I understand that the thread used for Watling carriage bolts and other slot machine manufacturers bolts is 10-24. 24 being the number of threads per inch. I purchased a quantity of 10-24 square nuts on ebay to fit the original Watling carriage bolts. They arrived and they don't fit. They do fit new 10-24 carriage bolts but not the old original Watling bolts. Has anyone else had this problem. The nut is 10-24 NC so it should fit. I am completely at a loss as to why it does not fit. Any help greatly appreciated.
Lol (Laurence)
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby mrslot1 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:56 am

Hi Laurence,
I have seen this a lot over the past 35+ years working on antique slots and other vintage items.
This was common going back to the late 20's and early 30's on nuts and bolts, It actually goes back further into the 1860's At that time there was no National standard yet! Meaning some manufacturing companies were not all on the same page when threading bolts, so the manufacturing process was not like what it is today.
It took many years to get all the correct threads National Course (NC) and National Fine (NF) as it is today.
I'm sure I might be missing some info here but this is what I have to offer!
I hope this helps!
Thanks Dave
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby oldslotman » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:20 am

Try a 3/16 nut if you can find one
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby gsx11r » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:24 am

Hi LOL
Tell me , on what Rol do you try to use the 10-24 Nut ??
The one from France or the one from Italy ???
If it s the one From France , it s Maybe not the original Carriage bolt but French carriage bolt , and it s not 10-24 !
Let me know .
Stephane
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby Lol » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:45 am

Thanks Dave, Old Slotsman & Stephane
I will try a 3/16 square nut if i can find them. Stephane I tried the nut on genuine original Watling carriage bolts. The Watling carriage bolts have vertical grooves to bite into the wood. The 10-24 square nut was NOS and vintage. Here is the ebay link. I am sure that the seller gave an accurate description as he took it off the box.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-24-Plain- ... 2749.l2649

Do you know if it is possible to re-tap the thread on the square nut using a 10-24 NC tap? I am still in the US but i will try to re-tap when I get home to see if that works. I just can't figure out why a 10-24 nut does not fit a 10-24 bolt.

Lol (Laurence)
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby mechanic » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:18 am

The reason it may not fit is due to the thread size being 12-24 not 10-24 like so many think it is. If you have an original never messed with machine the bolts will be 12-24 which is an odd size so many were converted to standard size over the years. Kind of like now having standard thread and trying to use a metric thread on it. Watling also use a thread on the handle bolt called an ACME thread which had the thread squared off at the outer edges.
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby gsx11r » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:20 am

Hi again Laurence
Okay , I m checking with an original Watling bolt , and you are right.
All is okay about the 24 thread ,but the problem is with the size( alway a problem of size :lol: )
The Old Watling is a little , little more large than the new screw .No more than 0.1 to 0.2 mm ( Sorry , I don t have it in inch, but it s very very small).
I think that if you retape the square nut with a new tape in 10-24 ,all will be good.
Give me some minutes and I test this for you .
Stephane
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby Lol » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:49 am

It makes sense what Mechanic said that the early carriage bolts were 12-24 and not 10-24. That might explain why the nut does not fit. I like Stephane checked the thread per inch and it is 24. However i did not check the diameter. It will be interesting to hear Stephane's result when he re-taps a nut to 10-24 to see if it will fit on an original Watling carriage bolt.
Lol
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby gsx11r » Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:52 am

Well ; I m back
I have tapped the Square nut with a 10-24 UNC. It s really better but not perfect !! It s not loose , you need to use a tool for turn it !But work.
But if you die the carriage bolt in 10-24 , it s perfect ! It s just a little rectification but need this for to be correct.
I agree with Mechanic, 12-24 will be perfect , but good luck for find them !! (Hi Mechanic :occasion5: )
What ever ,if you are in USA , buy all Tools that you can ,specialy tape and die in 6-32 , 8-32 , 10-24 and 1/4-20. ( sometimes , you need it in 10-32, but it s rare ).
Stephane
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Re: square 10-24 nut for Watling carriage bolt

Postby Lol » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:08 pm

Hi Stephane

Thank you for the information. No problem for the tools. Remember when I was at your home i took photos of all your tools. Tap & die etc.. I buy all exactly the same as yours so we are like brothers with the same tools, ha ha.
I will experiment with the die when I get home. If only you lived closer I would come over again. Just 300 miles and a bit of water in the way? In California I visited your good friend. We will talk more when I get home. Still looking for a rol-a-top mechanism.
Best, Laurence
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