Interesting article in the last issue of COCA about e-Bay

See a listing on E-Bay and want to discuss it? Want to rant about Ebay? All E-Bay related discussion should go here.

A Response to KaChing. What does it cost for our Magazine??

Postby goodguy » Thu Mar 31, 2005 8:49 pm

This is directed to KaChing- Answer one-No one starts off an "advanced collector" To get more knowledge aout your machines there are many books. Sellers of these books are "advertised" in COCA-Mag. but--if you asked any collector, or dealer, they could advise you what books would be best. It takes time, research, desire, going to shows, meeting other collectors.(learning from your mistakes.) It's a great hobby- go to the show, walk around thats were the education will start. If you are not excited about coin-op, nothing will motivate you. But give it a chance.
Regarding the cost of publishing.....$18,000 $6000 per priniting, and I am certain we print at least a thousand magazines a run- means your paying $10 per copy. Your forgetting mailing costs, stuffing and everything else requireds to keep the club operating at a professional level.
The clubs importance is to the hobby itself. Creating new collectors, a focus point for communication, supporting shows and keeping the interest level up. The magazine, as far as I am concerned, is a great bonus for the $30 membership fee.
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To: Kaching sp? and Gumgod

Postby mrolucky » Thu Mar 31, 2005 10:43 pm

First let me say, from the perspective of a completely objective on looker, you guys are a little over board here. CAN'T WE ALL BE FRIENDS, big group hug.

Now a little more...

I joined this hobby back in 1988 and while I am still not a big time collector I will have to point out a few observations from collecting over, let's say 15 plus years. A lot of people in this hobby, for one resaon or another are down right cranky and seem to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. I don't really believe let's call him the new collector (nc)was taking that big of a shot at Gumgod. In fact, he pointed out in the beginning by saying people should read an article in his magazine. Unfortunately, this seems to be a simple case of miscommunication which has become personal. I for one, would like to see (nc) continue with his collecting and I find nothing wrong with a couple of hightops and a relatively common jennings machine.

Please don't leave the hobby, it can be fun, interesting, and your friends probably due and will contiue to love your machines. I believe the guy was simply trying to give Gungod some input.

On the other hand, to the (nc), one does have to take the initaitive to read books, visit shows, etc so that they can get up to speed with the hobby which I am sure that is what the guy was trying to do by subscribing to the publication. I'm not sure I understand why he wouldn't want to publicize his machines in the periodical., but to each his own..

I will finish by simply saying if we all had a little more respect for one another, it will in turn hepl attract people to this wonderful hobby and in turn enhance the value of everyone's collection

Let's try to get along

Thanks
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Re: A Response to KaChing. What does it cost for our Magazin

Postby KaChing » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:04 am

goodguy wrote:This is directed to KaChing- Answer one-No one starts off an "advanced collector" To get more knowledge aout your machines there are many books. Sellers of these books are "advertised" in COCA-Mag. but--if you asked any collector, or dealer, they could advise you what books would be best. It takes time, research, desire, going to shows, meeting other collectors.(learning from your mistakes.) It's a great hobby- go to the show, walk around thats were the education will start. If you are not excited about coin-op, nothing will motivate you. But give it a chance.
Regarding the cost of publishing.....$18,000 $6000 per priniting, and I am certain we print at least a thousand magazines a run- means your paying $10 per copy. Your forgetting mailing costs, stuffing and everything else requireds to keep the club operating at a professional level.
The clubs importance is to the hobby itself. Creating new collectors, a focus point for communication, supporting shows and keeping the interest level up. The magazine, as far as I am concerned, is a great bonus for the $30 membership fee.


GoodGuy, thanks for clearing that up. I have no doubt it is expensive to publish a magazine and I am sure printing 3,000 issues is expensive.

Perhaps I misunderstood what gumGod said. I thought he said that without the advertising income there would only be two issues and I thought that there were about 600 members. Going on that, I assumed that he was stating it took $18,000 to put out 1200 magazines.

That just seemed very high.

If you have 600 members, why do you print 1,000 copies of the magazine? That seems to me like a lot of extra magazines. Is the minimum run number that the printer will do 1,000 copies?

I appreciate the follow up and not getting my head chopped off for asking the question.
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Re: To: Kaching sp? and Gumgod

Postby KaChing » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:20 am

mrolucky wrote:First let me say, from the perspective of a completely objective on looker, you guys are a little over board here. CAN'T WE ALL BE FRIENDS, big group hug.

Now a little more...

I joined this hobby back in 1988 and while I am still not a big time collector I will have to point out a few observations from collecting over, let's say 15 plus years. A lot of people in this hobby, for one resaon or another are down right cranky and seem to walk around with a chip on their shoulder. I don't really believe let's call him the new collector (nc)was taking that big of a shot at Gumgod. In fact, he pointed out in the beginning by saying people should read an article in his magazine. Unfortunately, this seems to be a simple case of miscommunication which has become personal. I for one, would like to see (nc) continue with his collecting and I find nothing wrong with a couple of hightops and a relatively common jennings machine.

Please don't leave the hobby, it can be fun, interesting, and your friends probably due and will contiue to love your machines. I believe the guy was simply trying to give Gungod some input.

On the other hand, to the (nc), one does have to take the initaitive to read books, visit shows, etc so that they can get up to speed with the hobby which I am sure that is what the guy was trying to do by subscribing to the publication. I'm not sure I understand why he wouldn't want to publicize his machines in the periodical., but to each his own..

I will finish by simply saying if we all had a little more respect for one another, it will in turn hepl attract people to this wonderful hobby and in turn enhance the value of everyone's collection

Let's try to get along

Thanks


mrolucky:

I did not post the original article about checking out the article in the magazine. I think Dave, the administrator did.

I just stated that I agreed with WatlingBoy and was immediately attacked by gumGod.

It looks like that I violated a cardinal rule and that rule is do not criticize COCA because if you do the wrath of God will fall upon you.

I will continue to belong to this forum, I still doubt I will renew my subscription to COCA though. I don't need the attitude.

I wish I had the time or now, the desire, to go to a show but I don't. I don't live close to Chicago. In addition, I would have to take time away from my business.

I posted a question in the Just Chatting section of the forum asking for advice on what books to read.

I find it strange that no one has addressed the original post to this topic. That being the article about ebay in the last issue of COCA.
KaChing
 
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COCA membership and costs

Postby Dan Davids » Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:35 am

Gentlemen

As the COCA Treasurer, I remind you that all COCA members received a “Profit and Loss� statement with their last issue. If you want to stick to facts, please refer too that statement.

Re the printing of the COCA Times, we request 700 copies per issue. But with any printing there are “overs�. A small excess is printed intentionally to be able to fulfill paid requests for past issues from new members.

Membership currently stands at 630 members +/-, and has more than doubled since the magazine has been in print.

COCA Dues are $29.50 per year. Dues cover the cost of printing, shipping, stuffing and ,ailing the magazine, as well as the cost of putting on 2 meetings per year (bear in mind that even when Jasper has been so kind as to host our group, it still costs the club $700-1000 to have the meeting), and the COCA booth at the Chicagoland show.

COCA officers, staff and committee members all are volunteers. I think it’s safe to speak for all of us by saying we volunteer because we feel it is a way for us to “give back� to the hobby. The group of COCA members from Ohio that put on the First Annual COCA Convention last year were all volunteers. This was a huge undertaking and was a huge success as well. Their hard work has made it far easier for my committee to plan the second convention here in CA this coming July. It should also be mentioned that COCA paid $0 for last year’s convention, and the Group in Cleveland was able to turn a small profit and gave those funds (nearly $1000) to the club. We’re working in the same manner for 2005, and we hope that all of you can join us in July.

Re the hobby; we all need new ‘blood’ in this coin op hobby we share. We all have a love/hate relationship with eBay, but the fact remains that eBay has created a plethora of new collectors in this hobby. Without new members, we’d be sitting around watching prices fall, waiting for the next one of us to die so the few that were left could gobble up his stuff.

One of the things I enjoy about this hobby, COCA and the Chicagoland show is that it seems to be the big equalizer. It doesn’t matter if you’re the head of a Fortune 500 Company, or a janitor, we all share the same passion. I have never felt that there was an elitist segment in our hobby. But like any group of collectors, there are guys you like and are always willing to help or lend a hand or offer some advice, and there are guys that; well let’s just say, there are guys you like much less.

Dan Davids
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Coin Op Reference Books

Postby Ric Gandy » Fri Apr 01, 2005 10:50 am

This is addressed to "KaChing" and anyone else out there who is relatively new to this hobby and wants to learn more about the history and machines themselves. You can find all of the coin op books you could possibly want at Crow River Trading Co.. Crow River is owned and run by Roger Hilden and Roger is one of the good guys and will be happy to help you any way he can. For those of you who don't know, Roger is also a source for ABT coin slides and parts for the various ABT gun games. You can get to Crow River at www.crowriver.com..

Probably the three best books that any coin op collector can have in their coin op reference library are Marshall Fey's "Slot Machines - America's Favorite Gaming Device" , Dick Bueschel's "Guide To Vintage Trade Stimulators & Counter Games" , and Bill Enes' "Silent Salesman Too" for all kinds of gumball, peanut, and vending machines. Actually, all of the Bueschel coin op books are worth owning and reading. Crow River has all three of these books in stock. If you browse through these three books and don't get excited about coin operated machines in general and want to learn more about them and own a few of your own, you need to find another hobby.

As for the discussion on COCA, one of the primary benefits of being a member in my opinion was getting the list of members. When it first came out, the members were listed alphabetically by town and state and there was a code so you could tell what each member was primarily interested in. You were also given the member's phone number and email address so you could contact them as needed. Now, the current list, dated January 27. 2005, is now called the "COCA Customer Contact LIst" and only gives you a list of names by state (I guess the international members don't count) and that person's phone number and fax number. Fax number? The list is no longer in alphabetical order so if you are looking for someone, no longer gives the town the member lives in, and no longer includes the member's email address if they have one. I don't know what "volunteer" decided that the members no longer needed or would like to have this information. I suppose it is the same one or group that considers the list of members list "their" customer contact list. I for one don't like it one bit, but obviously my vote doesn't count.

I was one of the early participants in this forum. When Dave first put it together, I went to some effort to make sure that all of the COCA members were informed about it. I also brought it to the attention of the COCA brain trust and suggested that COCA could and should do something exactly like the forum as an added benefit of membership. Apparently, that fell on deaf ears. I also suggested that COCA make it possible for the members to send out a mass email all of the other members who wanted to participate in such a system so that you could ask for help locating a part, put out the word that you had reproduced some paper, etc., etc, in a timely manner without having to wait 3 or 4 months for the next issue of the COCA Times to come out. You see how well that was received. I was told there was a privacy issue (BS) and it would be too much work for the volunteers. Never stopped the President from sending out his "thoughts from the top" or whatever he called it. Now we aren't even given each other's email addresses. I guess the brain trust just doesn't want "their customers" talking to one another. Fortunately, I have all the old lists so if anyone needs a town or an email address, feel free to contact me and I will give it to you if I have it.

By the way, in case some of you are wondering if I am just one of the ones who like to bitch and never participates or contributes anything, I am the resident "expert" on old amusement tokens for the club. If you go to the COCA website and "ask the expert" a question about old amusement tokens, your question comes to me. I also got permission from Steve Alpert, the guy who wrote the book on amusement tokens, to recycle his old columns and articles from The Coin Slot magazine in the COCA Times. Only one such article has been run so far, but there are more where that one came from.

Finally, I am lucky enough to have a complete set of The Coin Slot magazine and Loose Change magazine, plus most of the other coin op magazines that have come and gone over the last 15 or 20 years. These magazines are crammed full of good articles, most of which are just as interesting and informative today as they were when they were written. A lot of the guys who wrote those articles are still around and some of them are COCA members. Why do the articles have to be brand new? Not everyone is fortunate enough to have or have access to The Coin Slot or the early issues of Loose Change. There is a ton of stuff out there and most members would be happy to see it in the Times.

For those of you who like to know who they have been listening to, my name is Ric Gandy. I live in Lafayette, Louisiana. My email address is antiqueslots@juno.com. My eBay User ID is "dr.token". I don't have a fax machine, but my phone number is (337) 988-4183. Contrary to what Craig Smith thinks, I am a collector. I am not a dealer. I will be more than happy to help any COCA member with a few exceptions - like Dan said, there are some members we like less than others - and anyone like KaChing who may have a question about coin op or old amusement tokens any way I can.
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Postby phxstuff » Fri Apr 01, 2005 12:40 pm

This is Alex Warschaw president of C.O.C.A - I think the forum is great and regardless of how you feel about C.O.C.A it is healthy to chat about it. I would like to add some information and facts to the discussion. Our organization is still young and growing, of course we learn from our mistakes and of course we have made our share - I know you cannot please everyone and there will always be someone to complain about something. I can only say we try our best, no one makes a nickle on this club - Any monies acquired goes back into the club. In our next issue we will be sendiong a special tool to all our members which I find indispensible when working on machines. This in itself is nearly a 10.00 value, given free to our members. Non members can purchase it for 10.00 at the Chicagoland show. Regarding the "list". One of the goals is to get the website updated so that a member can contact any oher member once they are logged in. I have gotten many e-mails for parts, to visit antique websites, antique sales etc all because the e-mails on the list were harvested by someone or a company and then used for spamming members. Hasn't anyone noticed they have gotten e-mails from a coin-op website they have never visited? I did not think this was fair to our members. The website does need work - Al Fox (our web-site manager) has done a great job but he is a self learned non expert and does the best he can (no one has offered to help him). I looked into a professional service to get the kind of website I would like, but the costs are exorbitant. I hope this is one of the areas the new officers will investigate as I will be leaving in November. The website is the place to advertise sites such as these, any member can request therir website or chat room be posted. Perhaps if it was part of a general article on coin-op or on websites it might work. The conventions are actually becoming the "best" part of membership. Cleveland was great with many bargains to be had both in the room selling and the auction like event - Just the opportunity to see a collection the likes of a Barry Goldfarb or Greg Mclemore should be enough to join. By the way the convention is not for the "Elite" but for every member whether they have 1 machine or a hundred. By the feedback I am getting the CA convention will be even greater. We even have the 2006 convention site nearly lined up. Only COCA members are allowed to participate in this event and 30.00 is a small "token" (no pun intended Dr Token) to participate. How many of us pay 50.00 just for Friday attendance in Chicago. I am sorry to see anyone not re-subscribe to our club but I certainly respect their feelings. I know gumgod and he is very nice person, my feeling is that we sometimes take criticism a little too personal and end up saying or typing things we wish we didn't just out of frustration. We all work heard as volunteers and get very little if any "thank you's". If you like coin-op we are all in this together, member or not I will try to help another collector if I can. Hopefully we can put any negative feelings behind us and hope that the future will improve and hold great opportunities for each of us and the club. If you would like to talk further I am in booth K-5 in Chicagoland - my e-mail address is walex6@msn.com.
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Postby Dave » Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:21 pm

phxstuff wrote:This is Alex Warschaw president of C.O.C.A - I think the forum is great and regardless of how you feel about C.O.C.A it is healthy to chat about it. I would like to add some information and facts to the discussion. Our organization is still young and growing, of course we learn from our mistakes and of course we have made our share - I know you cannot please everyone and there will always be someone to complain about something. I can only say we try our best, no one makes a nickle on this club - Any monies acquired goes back into the club. In our next issue we will be sendiong a special tool to all our members which I find indispensible when working on machines. This in itself is nearly a 10.00 value, given free to our members. Non members can purchase it for 10.00 at the Chicagoland show. Regarding the "list". One of the goals is to get the website updated so that a member can contact any oher member once they are logged in. I have gotten many e-mails for parts, to visit antique websites, antique sales etc all because the e-mails on the list were harvested by someone or a company and then used for spamming members. Hasn't anyone noticed they have gotten e-mails from a coin-op website they have never visited? I did not think this was fair to our members. The website does need work - Al Fox (our web-site manager) has done a great job but he is a self learned non expert and does the best he can (no one has offered to help him). I looked into a professional service to get the kind of website I would like, but the costs are exorbitant. I hope this is one of the areas the new officers will investigate as I will be leaving in November. The website is the place to advertise sites such as these, any member can request therir website or chat room be posted. Perhaps if it was part of a general article on coin-op or on websites it might work. The conventions are actually becoming the "best" part of membership. Cleveland was great with many bargains to be had both in the room selling and the auction like event - Just the opportunity to see a collection the likes of a Barry Goldfarb or Greg Mclemore should be enough to join. By the way the convention is not for the "Elite" but for every member whether they have 1 machine or a hundred. By the feedback I am getting the CA convention will be even greater. We even have the 2006 convention site nearly lined up. Only COCA members are allowed to participate in this event and 30.00 is a small "token" (no pun intended Dr Token) to participate. How many of us pay 50.00 just for Friday attendance in Chicago. I am sorry to see anyone not re-subscribe to our club but I certainly respect their feelings. I know gumgod and he is very nice person, my feeling is that we sometimes take criticism a little too personal and end up saying or typing things we wish we didn't just out of frustration. We all work heard as volunteers and get very little if any "thank you's". If you like coin-op we are all in this together, member or not I will try to help another collector if I can. Hopefully we can put any negative feelings behind us and hope that the future will improve and hold great opportunities for each of us and the club. If you would like to talk further I am in booth K-5 in Chicagoland - my e-mail address is walex6@msn.com.


Alex:

Thanks for the note and your opinion that this website is worthwhile.

Not sure I understand your comment about getting email from the coin-op web site I never visited. I get so much spam from other web sites that I probably never noticed if I got one from a coin op web site that I never visited. Actually, since I am involved in Coin Op i wouldn't mind getting a note from a site that I never heard of so I could investigate it.

Anyway, I don't quite understand what you are trying to do on your existing web site when you say "One of the goals is to get the website updated so that a member can contact any oher member once they are logged in." Are you trying to setup an online chat server so people can chat with each other if they are online? If you are trying to do this then why not just do Instant Messaging? If you are trying to setup a system where COCA members can email other COCA members without email addresses being public then I think you will have a difficult time getting this up and running with your current provider for the COCA web page.

However, if you would like this capability, I could enhance this bulletin board to do that. When I say that, I mean provide the capability for COCA members to send out bulk email to other COCA members without making their email addresses public.

If you want me to do this, then let me know. I will NOT do this unless the COCA board wants me to. To be frank, I don't want to waste my time enhancing this bulletin board with something that people don't want.

Just let me know if you want this capability. It will probably take me an evening or two since it will involve fairly extensive php programming changes to get everything up & running.

If you don't want me to add this capability then that is perfectly OK with me.

Dave
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Postby Ric Gandy » Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:38 am

Dave - Assuming the COCA members have something to say about it, I for one think it would be a great idea if the COCA members could communicate with one another in an efficient and timely manner. It should be relatively easy for anyone who does not want to get a mass email from another member to have their name removed from the master list. Thanks for offering to set it up for the club. Ric Gandy
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Postby Dave » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:54 am

Ric:

Sorry to say, this is one time the COCA members don't have a say in it.

In order for this to work ALL the COCA members must be informed about it. This requires buy-in from the Board and for them to agree to either announce it in the COCA times or for them to send out an email to all their members.

Based on some of the really nasty emails I have received from one of the board members I do not want to waste my time doing something only for it to be in vane.

If the people who belong to this bulletin board are COCA members and think an email capability would be useful, tell the board. If you don't think this would be useful feel free to express those opinions also. This board is all about free speech.

If you are going to Chicago, talk to them there or post to this forum. I know at least one of them reads it.

I was planning on going to Chicago but decided to bag it after one of the emails I received. Like Kaching, I don't need the attitude.

If COCA does not want me to provide this capability but wants to do it on their own site (where it really belongs) then that is prefectly fine with me. I don't quite know how COCA will do it with their current web service provider though. If they go to a different provider and hire someone to provide this capability then it could cost a lot (thousands of dollars) of money. If COCA does not think it would be useful to allow other COCA members to communicate directly with each other, while I don't understand why, I will respect their decision.

JUST TO BE CLEAR. If the board does not want this capability just say so. There will be no hard feelings on my end whatsoever.

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