Ebay item 6168077849 Mills Trade Stimulator

[tradestimulators]

I would hesitate to bid on the mills card machine, the buyer had it listed twice on EBAY at the same time

[Dave]

It looks like the lister double listed it so it could be listed under both trade stimulators and slots.

The following is a direct quote from the listing that is closed:

TO BID ON THIS ITEM & GET THE PROPER INFO. THIS LISTING WAS DONE TO DIRECT THE "TRADE STIMULATOR" COLLECTORS TO THE RIGHT LOCATION TO BID ON THIS ANTIQUE BECAUSE IT WAS ORIGINALLY LISTED AS A SLOT MACHINE IN THE SEARCH TITLE, WHICH WOULD NOT COME UP IF YOU WANTED A "TRADE STIMULATOR". I DO APOLOGIZE FOR THE CONFUSION, BUT I DID NOT WANT TO UPSET THE CURRENT BIDDERS & WATCHERS BY CANCELING THE LISTING & STARTING OVER AGAIN. I DO NOT KNOW ALL 54 WATCHERS, OR THE LOWER BIDDERS. SO TO BE FAIR TO ALL, I DECIDED TO PUT IN THIS SECOND SEARCH ITEM UNDER THE CORRECT SEARCH TITLE SO THAT ALL INTERESTED PARTIES WOULD KNOW IT WAS AVAILABLE & HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BID.

AGAIN...DO NOT BID ON THIS ITEM AT THIS LOCATION, IT WILL NOT BE A VALID BID BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT BE FOLLOWING THE INSTRUCTION OF THIS LISTING!!

WITH ALL OF THE CLEAR DIRECTIONS LISTED HERE & THE FACTS TO GO TO THE OTHER LISTING FOR BID PURPOSES & IF YOU STILL BID AT THIS LOCATION, VIOLATING THE INSTRUCTIONS :
"

Anyway, it looks like a pretty nice machine.


It will be interesting to see what it brings. From reading the listing it looks to be a pretty rare version of the Mills Jockey.

Here are some of the Q & A in the E-Bay listing
Q: Certainly is the "Pito" design...last one sold for 18,000 two years ago in much worse shape...i will send u the pictures of it...thanks
Apr-06-05
A: THANK YOU SO MUCH, I HOPE YOU DON'T MIND, BUT I AM GOING TO PUT THAT INFO IN THE LISTING. YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOU MADE MY NIGHT. I AM A SINGLE STRUGGLING MOM & EVERY NICKLE COUNTS . I ONLY HOPE OTHERS KNOW THE VALUE. THIS MACHINE IS ONLY MISSING A FEW TRIM PIECES THAT I KNOW. I CAN'T GET INTO THE INSIDE TO KNOW IF IT'S WORKING BUT A LITTLE POLISH & IT WILL LOOK REAL NICE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR HONESTY...CAN YOU PROVIDE ME WITH ANY OTHER DETAILS? BLESSES TO YOU & YOUR FAMILY, IT IS SO REFRESHING TO MEET AN HONEST BUYER, MARIEANN



Q: please send other pictures. this appears to be the rare pito-wally design which only a half dozen or so were made. had to change design and lettering as the machines were able to be opened by certain people. thanks rex
Apr-05-05
A: THANK YOU FOR YOUR INFO. AS I HAVE INDICATED TO MANY INTERESTED BUYERS, I JUST DON'T HAVE ANY KNOWLEDGE ON THIS PIECE. I WILL SEND YOU THE 7 EXTRA PHOTOS I HAVE. IF YOU COME TO ANY CONCLUSION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. THANK YOU MUCH FOR YOUR INTEREST, BLESSES MARIEANN



Q: Hello Marieann: Some seem to have a different opinion as to what you have. Your Mills "Jockey" appears to be in excellent condition for it's age. I could tell you more with additional photo's. This machine should be cleaned only, and worked with the patina of the wood, to keep it in as original condition as possible. It is from the 1900 to 1905 period. I could give you a closer date if I know the serial number, which should be on a small sticker on the inside wall of the case, if it hasn't fallen off with age. But the same number is usually stamped in the wood case, just above the back door, and many times on the door as well. Your machine has the earlier trim, and is not the same as the one in Dick Bueschel's book, on pg 69. That model is dated incorrectly, and has the last known trim design, before they went to a much plainer case. Mills made the "Jockey" from 1900 thru 1927. The overall case style never changed, but there were several wood trim, and a few casting changes. Bill
Apr-04-05
A: Thank you very much for your info. Everytime I get a new message, I get more data but get more confused as well. It has caused me to literally get out my magnifying glass to look for things like this number you speak of. I have found, right above the lock imprinted into the wood looks to be a : TB 62 not sure if the B is a B or a P & not sure if the 6 is a 6 or a 5. Thats the best I can come up with, There looks like there was some stickers at one time. THANK you, I'll e-mail you 8 photos & let me know what you think. Blesses Marieann



Q: What's this about the winner contacting you for the price. The winner is the winner - period. Please explain.
Apr-04-05
A: I AM NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION OR WHERE YOUR READING YOUR COMMENT. I THINK YOU ARE REFERING TO THE BOTTOM WHERE I TALK ABOUT THE SHIPPING. IN MY SHIP NOTES, IT SAYS FULL INSURANCE IS REQUIRED & THE FINAL SHIP PRICE WILL BE BASED ON FINAL SALES AMOUNT. THE MORE IT SOLD FOR, THE HIGHER THE INSURANCE. THIS IS BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE FINAL SALES AMOUNT WILL BE & BECAUSE I REQUIRE FULL INSURANCE, IT WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTILL THE FINAL PRICE IS DETERMINED. I HOPE THIS IS WHAT YOU WERE REFERING TO, BECAUSE YOUR RIGHT, THE FINAL PRICE IS THE FINAL PRICE. I AM SORRY IF I CONFUSED YOU & PLEASE E-MAIL ME IF I CAN ANSWER ANY MORE QUESTIONS. BLESSES MARIEANN



Q: would consider selling your machine as buy it now?
Apr-04-05
A: I CANNOT DO THAT, IT WOULD BE AGAINST MY POLICY WHEN THERE ARE BIDDERS ON THIS MACHINE ALREADY. IT WOULD NOT BE FAIR TO OTHERS. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST & GOOD LUCK TO YOU !!



Q: Nice machine. What you have is a 1900 "Jockey" made by Mills Novelty Co. of Chicago, Illinois. The "bible" on trade stimulators is Dick Bueschel's "Vintage Trade Stimulators & Counter Games". This machine is pictured on page 69 of Bueschel's book. According to Bueschel, your "Jockey" is "a true classic, and one of the most desirable card machines." I would agree. I would suggest that anyone seriously interested in a machine like this will want to see some more pictures of it. I would like to see a picture of the left side and the back and the area where you think something is missing. If you have any questions, feel free to ask and good luck with your auction. Ric Gandy
Apr-04-05
A: THANK YOU SO SO VERY MUCH FOR TAKING YOUR TIME TO ADD THIS IMPORTANT INFO. I REALLY DISLIKE SELLING SOMETHING TO THE PUBLIC I KNOW LITTLE ABOUT IN FEAR OF ERROR OR MIS-INFORMATION. I AM GOING TO TRY TO GET MORE PICTURES & LOAD THEM ON THE LISTING. IF THEY WON'T LOAD, I'LL AT LEAST ADD THAT BIDDERS CAN REQUEST THEN & i'LL E-MAIL THEM. I WILL DO THIS FOR YOU AS SOON AS I GET THEM. BEFORE I LISTED THIS MACHINE, I E-MAILED SEVERAL COLLECTORS OUTSIDE OF E-BAY WITH PHOTOS & AM NOW GETTING BACK MY RESPONSES. A LITTLE SLOW, BUT AT LEAST THEY'RE COMING IN. EVERYONE HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT OPPINION TO HOW MANY AVAILABLE. THE MOST COMMON RESPONSE IS OVER 5 & LESS THAN 20. ONE PERSON SAID LESS THAN 50 & ANOTHER 100, BUT MOST SEEM TO HAVE FACTS ON LESS THAN 20. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST, BLESSES MARIEANN



Q: Hi. Your find is not a slot, but a trade stimulator. Although not in great condition. IT WILL Bring at least $ 4500.00 NICE FIND.I hope I get to drive to your house to pick it up.... John
Apr-03-05
A: Thank you so much for your info, I will pass it on to the bidders, so they know what i didn't know. If you win the bid & live in the area, you are welcome to pick it up. Marieann

[tradestimulators]

I am still suspicious because...

1. Private Listing
2. Rare Pito design? Never heard of it..looks exactly like the Jockey shown on pg. 146 of For Amusement Only.. rarity C value 3-4k, this machine is already over 6k and we can't tell who's bidding it. The most I ever saw a jockey sell for is $4800.

[Ric Gandy]

I wondered what the deal was with the private auction on the Mills "Jockey", so I sent the seller the following email and this is her response. I guess the next thing I would like to know is how she got her hands on this machine in the first place. She obviously did not know what she had so I sent her an email telling her what little I knew about it. She seems genuine enough. Judging from some of the emails she has posted, no wonder she is confused. She is getting flooded with a lot of meaningless crap. I guess some people just have to try impress other people with what they think they know about all of this stuff. Ultra rare "pitro" design? Who is kidding who? This lady is just trying to sell her machine and asked if someone could tell her what it is. Now whoever ends up with it might like to know all of the finer points, but for this lady and most of the rest of us, Mills "Jockey" , circa 1900, is all she needed to know. Ric Gandy

HI RIC,
THANK YOU FOR YOUR INTEREST. I HAVE SOME PEOPLE NOW TELLING ME THIS IS ONE OF ONLY 6 & UNDER THAT WERE MADE DUE TO AN EARLY FLAW IN THE DESIGN ENABLING PEOPLE TO GET INTO THE MACHINE, SO AFTER ONLY A FEW, THEY CHANGED THE DESIGN. THIS IS ONE OF ONLY THE FEW. BUT OF COURSE, I CAN'T CONFIRM THAT, JUST WHAT I AM BEING TOLD. AS FAR AS THE AUCTION. I AM A PRIVACY PERSON. I JUST FEEL THAT PEOPLE MAY OR MAY NOT CARE WHO WINS, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON WHO WISHES TO REMAIN PRIVATE. THE OTHER GUY THAT IT DOES NOT MATTER, IT WON'T OFFEND HIM IF NO ONE KNOWS, SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE NO ONE WAS OFFENDED.
THAT IS WHY. THANK YOU & BLESSES MARIEANN
----- Original Message -----
From: antiqueslots@juno.com
To: MCKCTCJC@msn.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 8:09 PM
Subject: Re:Current Level of Bidding


Marieann - I see the current high bid is $6409.55 with 7 seven days to go. It will be interesting to see what happens from here, but you are already over some of the earlier estimates. I am curious about something. You are not a coin op dealer. Not like you have several more of these that you are planning on selling. Why did you choose to run a private auction. I like to watch an item like this to see who is bidding on it. I realize it is none of my business, but I would like to know why you chose to handle this auction the way you did. Thanks and good luck with the rest of your auction. Ric Gandy

[tradestimulators]

Dave,

You may be correct and it is legit, but I would not take the gamble, being EBAY if it looks like a Swan it could be a turkey dressed like a Swan. Still with private bidding it is very easy to shill the bid. Still, a Mills Jockey going for that type of money on EBAY, hard to believe.

[Dave]

Dave,

You may be correct and it is legit, but I would not take the gamble, being EBAY if it looks like a Swan it could be a turkey dressed like a Swan. Still with private bidding it is very easy to shill the bid. Still, a Mills Jockey going for that type of money on EBAY, hard to believe.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I am always suspect of machines on E-Bay which have private auctions. Actually, I am suspect of all machines on E-Bay, but we don't need to start that discussion.

I have never owned a Jockey and probably never will unless one falls into my lap (I am mainly interested in payout devices).

It does look like a nice machine and if anyone knows about these machines it is the people who read this forum and the COCA magazine.

I would encourage anyone who knows about the Mills Jockey to enter into this thread. Of course, if you are bidding on the machine and want to keep the hype down , you might want to wait until the auction is over.

For those so inclined, this might make an interesting article for COCA.

Dave

[Marc Hess]

Just a few thoughts:


1. If it looks to good to be true it probably is too good to be true.
2. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its probably a duck.
3. I hate e-bay private auctions! I always suspect the worst.
4. I hate 9 day auctions!
5. I would like to hear Bill Whelan's opinion on the machine ( I'm not interested in bidding on it, just would like the real facts on rarity etc.)

My two cents, thanks for listening.

To all going to Chicago have a great time and wish I could be there. I still haven't figured out how to take the time away from work or the family to justify the trip.

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Just a few thoughts:


1. If it looks to good to be true it probably is too good to be true.
2. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck its probably a duck.
3. I hate e-bay private auctions! I always suspect the worst.
4. I hate 9 day auctions!
5. I would like to hear Bill Whelan's opinion on the machine ( I'm not interested in bidding on it, just would like the real facts on rarity etc.)

My two cents, thanks for listening.

To all going to Chicago have a great time and wish I could be there. I still haven't figured out how to take the time away from work or the family to justify the trip.

Hi Marc OK, you got my attention! Here's the 411 on the Lady with the "Jockey" on eBay. I will start by saying, that she is a very nice person indeed. For all you 'worry-warts' out there, that think she is playing games by running a "Private Bid" auction, she is not. It was purely an oversite, as she has been running most of her jewelry auctions this way.
I explained to her that most collectors here in the machine category are well aware of Private auctions sending up a red flag, as a way of hiding the sellers use of their own 'other' userID's, and their friendly 'Shills'. The fact that she put the machine in the SLOT category, is because she had no idea there was such a thing as a Trade Stimulator. After being notified about it, she tried to correct it by putting a notation in the T.S. category, which also failed. She did not want to shut the auction down, and relist it, because of having bids already on the item. So what she did was list another auction by changing the header to read 'Trade Stimulator', but did not realize that there was a separate category, and it ended up being place in the Slot section again. Her only intention for doing this, was to
bring bidders attention to the machine, in both categories. She then got a couple of nasty e-mails from our fellow collectors, asking her what she was trying to pull. At this point, she was so sick of all the crap, that she immediately shut the notification site down. When she first listed the machine, she was inendated by numerous persons, trying to get her to shut the auction down, and sell the machine off eBay. Gee! Where have I heard that before? Then came all the experts that were trying to tell her what she had, only to confuse her more, as everyone had a different story. She was so discomboobled at this point, that she was wishing that she had only ran a 3 day auction, rather than a 9. I must say, that her responses to most of her e-mails have been very pleasant, considering what she has been put through.

About in the middle of all this fiasco, is when I stepped in with my 'three' cents worth, and tried to calm her down, and tell her the real story about her "Jockey". Now, I don't consider myself an expert on all coin machines, but I have been at this game long enough to know much of what I say is a fact, when it comes to most counter games. I owe most of my knowledge to my late friend Dick Bueschel, as well as digging up many pieces of original factory paperwork, and ads, on my own. Here I thought that I knew about every configuration of "Jockey" there was, when someone pops up with this "Pito-Wally" stuff! Where the hell that came from, I have no idea! Dick had never mentioned anything to me about this model. If such a thing does exist, I would be interested in some sort of documentation on it, as I am a history buff, and that is what I am most interested in. Secondly, if there is such a thing, who in their right mind would pay $18,000.00 for one? Even if it were on an original floor stand, that's getting into Victorian Upright territory. I think there is a typo here, and it may have been $8,000.00, which is a little bit more realistic. I can only ask that John, aka "Rex", get ahold of me, and fill me in on all his knowledge on this subject, via my e-mail address. Please!

All I can say at this point, is please use a little courtesy, and leave Marieann alone, as she is totally fed up with all this crap. and can't wait til the 13th, when all this will be over. And 'No' she doesn't have any other machines to sell. This was the 'one and only' inheritance. She is very surprised at what this machine is at now, as am I.

I can only wish her luck in the sale, as well as the lucky winner, as this machine is truly an early, and unique piece. Bill Whelan

THE SOAPBOX HAS NOW BEEN VACATED! NEXT!

[tradestimulators]

All I can say is I love it when a seller says their sick of all the crap when

1. They find out they have something that its worth thousands more then they thought
2. Everybody is "bothering them" to buy it
3. People are offering free appraisals and information on the item

I guess she would have been happier if no one was interested in it and it was worth nothing..gimme a break.

[Dave]

Bill:

Thanks for adding your '$.03" worth .

Dave