Here we go Again!

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Here is yet another one of the Las Vegas Butcher Shops creations, with a recast-cut-down Pace Jackpot on a Groetchen machine.
Guess the seller finally found out what he had purchased, and decided it's time to off-load. This is a perfect example of someone
getting Screwed, and trying to recoop his loss. I wish him luck. At least this machine can be put back to original condition without
much work. First, loose the jackpot, and second redo that childish-crap-paint-job.

[andydotp]

Here is yet another one

Where pray tell Bill?
Please enlighten me as I cannot find a picture of what you're refering to, thanks.
andydotp

[cpdretired]

Bill at every Chicago show he has a "Frankenstein" machine or two. He sells all of them including his Pace recast jackpots.

[nvmos2]

I believe Bill is referring to ebay item number 121056343653.
(I've got to learn how to post a link in these msgs).

At least in this case, the seller gave a rather honest description of the bastardization of this machine.
I have a feeling he left out the statement he wanted to say; "I got screwed when I bought this machine, now I'm trying to recoup my loses."

[cpdretired]

[buzzojoe]

Although I've been aware of Bill's efforts to warn everyone about the bogus machines, I've never paid any attention to any auctions for them on Ebay or looked for them at Chicagoland. I collect cars also, and in that hobby there are people who will buy a "standard" 69 Camaro, then put Z28 trim, emblems, etc. on it, and then will try to pass it off as an actual Z28. Then there are people who make them and clearly tell people that it is a "clone" or "recreation". Then there is the third type of person who doesn't say anything, or uses vague statements like "All of the Z28 emblems, hood scoops, etc., are either original ones or reproduction ones as needed". That kind of statement IMPLIES that the car is an original Z28, but what the guy is really saying is that the Z28 PARTS might be original ones that came out of a junkyard.
Is the guy selling these "bogus" machines passing them off as real, original machines, or is he doing the "vague" thing and leaving it up to the buyer to be smart or dumb about the purchase.
I remember years ago when I saw my first reproduction Mills slot machines. Bill and Rosanna Harris (Royal Bell Ltd.) were selling them, and they were VERY up front about them being reproduction machines. That was probably 20 years ago, so I can see how a 60 year old guy might have bought one back then and now it's in the hands of his grandchildren who would honestly and legitimately say "this belonged to my grandfather and came out of his basement"....
Unfortunately, NO area of collecting that are immune to "bogus" reproduction stuff. Look at things like Coca Cola picnic coolers and metal Texaco gas signs. At the last Chicagoland show I bought a small Beatles Fan Club item for my daughter from a VERY reliable dealer who told me that he was 100% POSITIVE that it was real, but that he had bought it at an estate sale himself. Later on I checked on Ebay and found dozens of the item listed. Some of them were listed as "vintage", some as "new", and some with nothing at all about their "legitimacy". Fortunately the ones on Ebay were selling for the same price that I paid the dealer, and since it was for my young daughter to hang on her wall, I didn't care.

[Dave]

Go to http://www.ebay.com/itm/121056343653 if you want to see the listing.

To post a URL just put it in the message. Probably best to use copy/paste so there are no typos.

[Dave]

.....
I remember years ago when I saw my first reproduction Mills slot machines. Bill and Rosanna Harris (Royal Bell Ltd.) were selling them, and they were VERY up front about them being reproduction machines. That was probably 20 years ago, so I can see how a 60 year old guy might have bought one back then and now it's in the hands of his grandchildren who would honestly and legitimately say "this belonged to my grandfather and came out of his basement"....

....

Are they the ones who created the word "remanufactured"?

Wouldn't a real word, like, ummm, REPRODUCTION been a much better word to use?

[SLOT DYNASTY]

As we all know by now.........NO ONE likes to use the word REPRODUCTION when describing a machine that they are selling.
Most of the sellers just don't say anything. Especially the Trade Stimulators from the Vegas "Butcher Shop". They SHOULD be
described as Bogus, Phoney, Junk, Crap, Fake, Fantasy, or better yet, "Your taking it in your rear door"! But if you ever say
anything to him about his wonderous phoney creations, he just lies about it all. I have heard more stories than I can count,
and he just keeps feeding the unsuspecting collector with them. When is this crap going to stop. There are not going to be
enough good original machines left, if something isn't done soon.
As for the "War Eagles" that Royal Bell has been REPRODUCING, not Remanufacturing, since the early 1980's, most of them
are Bran-Spankin-New Creations. Meaning, new wood cabinet, new recast castings, new door & cashbox, and in most cases
the entire mechanism was new, which they had the tooling to build it all. In other words, if it were built today, it should be
labeled as a '2013 REPRODUCTION' or 'RECREATION'. Many of their machines, you can tell what they are, if someone hasn't
repainted it, because they were painted GOLD, and they advertised them as the "Golden Eagle". They also used the late
model Sword Handle, and silver background reel strips. Royal Bell always stated what they were selling at the time. But the
big problem now, is the present owners are not saying what they have when re-selling. Especially if it has changed hands
more than once. We've all seen several on eBay that state, "this was my grandfathers, and he has had it for 30 or 40 years,
therefore it has to be an original".
In the 1980's, Royal Bell was also selling Reproduction Fey Style "3 Jacks" machines, and were advertised as such, and were
also, all 10c play. Mainly because of the shrinkage of the recast parts, a penny would not work in it. Unless someone that
had some time on their hands, altered it to accept a penny. But since then, a couple of other persons have Reproduced
this same machine in both penny and nickel versions. This is why I have always stressed upon new collectors, that it is best
to purchase 'Old Dirty Original', as opposed to restored, unless you can truly trust the person you are buying from. Most of
the collectors and dealers in this hobby are very honest, and great to deal with. But there are those chosen few, that only
think of their-greedy-selves, and make it unhealthy for the rest of us.

[Dave]

I sent an email to the seller of this machine. I asked him if it came out of Vegas.

Here is his reply

I'm not sure who "the guy in Vegas" is, but that is where this machine came from, and I am learning more daily about it. It looks less and less likely I will sell this machine, and if not thats okay. I would rather keep it, than take advantage of someone like what was done to me. I was a new collector, and didn't know any better.

I then sent him another email with a link to this thread and here was his response

Thank you Ibuyoldslots, I appreciate that. I wish everyone would just do business right to begin with. I guess that is why you need to do your research before bidding. I have always just gone by what catches my eye. I guess this time it worked against me. Live and learn.

It really sucks that a new collector got burned.