FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

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FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Midcoast Vintage » Tue May 06, 2014 12:09 pm

Not sure whether this is tricky wording, or just stupidity.
Either way, the machine should not be labeled a Mills, or, a Bell-o-matic, as neither had anything to do with it, just as if
you buy a BOYD COTTINGTON PLASTIC POSER-MOBILE HOT ROD... IT IS NOT A FORD... FOMOCO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CAR.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CASTLE-FRONT-SL ... 4ad4e7131c
HERE is the tricky wording, which makes no sense:

Mills Castle Front Slot

Mills Castle Front Slot is in FLAWLESS working and looking condition!! Made in 1987 identical to the antique slot from the 30's except the payline cherry.

THESE ARE NO LONGER PRODUCED: RETAIL PRICE was $2895.00
The machine is re-manufactured by Royal Bell. It was originally made by MILLS BELL-O-MATIC in the Royal Bell, Ltd facility in Denver in the early 90's


1) it is not a mills.
2) states made in 1987, then, later states made in the early 90's...well... which is it?
3) states "identical...". it isn't . mills castle NEVER came with silver reel strips. (he does mention payout is incorrect, so, obviously he knows SOMETHING about slots. also, repro cashbox is not IDENTICAL, and machine probably has repro flat back door and modern drawer lock.
3) states "re-manufactured+. this is a fancy / false term do disguise "REPRODUCTION". then, states; "It was originally made by MILLS BELL-O-MATIC in the Royal Bell, Ltd facility in Denver in the early 90's". MILLS BELL-O-MATIC, NOR MILLS, WAS NEVER LOCATED IN DENVER, AND WAS NEVER MANUFACTURED OR ASSOCIATED WITH BILL AND ROSANNA HARRIS, OR THE ROYAL BELL COMPANY IN ANY WAY.
Besides the problem of "unknowing OR unscrupulous" sellers spouting their bogus knowledge, is THE PROBLEM OF EBAY MAKING IT NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO REPORT FAKE MACHINES (OR ANY OTHER PROBLEMS ON THEIR WEBSITE), EBAY ALSO TURNS A DEAF EAR AND FAILS TO TAKE DOWN FRAUDULENT MACHINES, OR OTHER FRAUDULENT LISTING. THEY SIMPLY DO NOT CARE. NOR,DO THEY CARE WHEN A HIJACKED ACCOUNT IS REPORTED TO THEM, THEY STILL LET THE AUCTION PLAY OUT.
Last edited by Midcoast Vintage on Tue May 06, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Dave » Tue May 06, 2014 3:40 pm

What is even more ridiculous is his shipping charge.

I put in a Denver metro zip code and it came up with $377. :shock:

Screen Shot 2014-05-06 at 4.28.54 PM.png


I asked him a message via ebay if the machine had pump, check detection hardware, etc.

He came back with
Not a clue as to what your referring to. This was passed on to me by my father, in the day he had one of the biggest amusement and collectible centers in Chicago however my expertise stops at pinball machines. I had a local antique slot guy appraise this and I'm just going on what I know.


I then tell him that his listing is being discussed in the forum and he comes back with

I see. as I am a business owner here in Cali and actually have more than 50 various slot machine in our warehouse that one day may or may not be offered for sale I decided to discuss your comments and my listing to my attorney. I have been assured that other than having a newbies knowledge to slots which shows in my listing, no where is there anything to show other than this is a reproduction, not an original. It was produced by Royal Bell, in fantastic condition and will make a wonderful addition to anyone's home.


So, he has over 50 slots and he stated the machine was identical?

FYI, he has since changed the listing to read
Very Similar to the antique slot from the 30's except the payline cherry, nails in base, etc. It is a fully functional cast reproduction Slot that would enhance any game room.


So the etc. in his statement pretty much covers everything else.

I wonder who his local antique slot guy was that did the appraisal.
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Midcoast Vintage » Wed May 07, 2014 1:56 am

SO FAR, SELLER HAS REVISED THIS LISTING 9 TIMES:
Revision summary for item #321399493404

The seller has revised the following item information:
Date Time Revised Information
May-06-14 13:53:28 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:53:40 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:54:51 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:56:04 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:24:34 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:28:58 PDT

Title

May-06-14 14:30:06 PDT

Title
PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted

May-06-14 15:08:10 PDT

PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted
Description

May-06-14 16:34:51 PDT

Shipping Terms
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby nvmos2 » Wed May 07, 2014 9:28 am

"Tricky Wording or Stupidity?"

I don't think the seller is stupid; I think it is just plain ignorance;
I see he has changed the title of the listing to include "reproduced".
I don't think he's into old slots and he just doesn't know what he's talking about.

To add to the confusion;
the couple making the fake slots as Royal Bell sold the slot portion of the business years ago, even though they still maintain a web-site showing the reproduction slots for sale (perhaps they are trying to help the new operators along).

It is my understanding that the new owners are going by the name Mills Bell-O-Matic, which seems pretty audacious, and they have not yet even established a web site.
Perhaps they are floundering, which would be just as well; we already have a sufficient supply of fake machines.
Perhaps someone will pick it up and do something positive for the hobby.
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Dave » Wed May 07, 2014 3:17 pm

Based on the following emails I received from the seller, I think he knew exactly what he had and got upset when he got called on it.

I see. as I am a business owner here in Cali and actually have more than 50 various slot machine in our warehouse that one day may or may not be offered for sale …..


Followed by

Thank you so much for contacting me and bringing my attention to what a large demand there is for these. My partner and I will be heading to our warehouse this week and dusting off a dozen or so of those old girls to put up for sale. To think I was just going to sell this one, heck we'll flood the market with what we've got stored. Thanks again and by all mean you and your friends are more than welcome to correct my listings anytime, should help me sell them all with little trouble as I'll be "exactly" correct. Thanks again, and you all have yourself a fine day now.. ya hear!


Here is my response

I look forward to seeing the machines from your warehouse. If this machine is a representative sample then I doubt I will be interested but you never know.

As you can tell, there is not much of a demand for reproductions. There is a huge demand for quality machines though.

Thanks for letting me know that I am welcome to point out any obvious errors in your listing.

Always willing to help spread the knowledge.

I see you charge a nice premium on your shipping. $377 just to ship to CO. WOW!

Again, really looking forward to seeing 12 of the old girls that you are going to dust off and list for sale. :-)


Followed by

Thanks again for spreading something, knowledge? As for reproductions, seems the demand is there more than you know. Just got an offer of $1000 cash from a local guy, he wants the stand included so I'll have to let that simmer some. Unless of course you have a knowledge base of stands too, or is it just slots & harassment? Hard to tell with only 35 transactions under your belt. Funniest thing when I called eBay just now that they seems interested in copying them on all these communications. It would appear they have no tolerance for violations under the member to member communications, would of figured. Have yourself a wonderful day


My response was


OK, I look forward to talking to ebay. Not sure which violation they are concerned with. Is it

1. Selling a reproduction slot machine in the "Antique Coin Slot Machines" area. I believe, ebay has a strict policy regarding selling reproductions in the antique area? In fact, I thought ebay does not allow reproductions. Since you are such an experienced ebay seller I am sure you know the rules better than I do.
2. Stating that the machine is identical to an antique except for the single cherry payout
3. Trying to circumvent ebay fees by taking a CASH offer
4. Selling a machine that is not legal in CA. Doesn't CA only allow one to buy/sell slots that are 25 years old. One made in the 90s is not 25 years old. I don't think ebay would condone selling illegal machines. However, that is just my opinion, I am sure you are much more knowledgable with ebay rules than I am.

Oh wait a minute, I was not the one doing any of the above.

Please give me the contact information of the ebay person you were talking to so we can get this cleared up.

...

Again, I am looking forward to seeing the slot machines that you will be selling.

Thanks


Needless to say, he has not provided me with the contact information of the ebay person he talked to.

I look forward to seeing the slots that he is going to "flood" the market with. :roll:
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Dave » Wed May 07, 2014 3:26 pm

I love the statement that he has in bold

THESE HIGH QUALITY REPRODUCTION VERSIONS ARE NO LONGER PRODUCED

Royal Bell still has a web page and they are still advertising their "Mills Classics"

I guess only crappy reproductions are being made today :D

This was the first time I ever heard that a Royal Bell creation was a high quality anything.
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Midcoast Vintage » Wed May 07, 2014 4:58 pm

he has now revised the ad 11 times, and is now throwing in the stand.
Revision summary for item #321399493404

The seller has revised the following item information:
Date Time Revised Information
May-06-14 13:53:28 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:53:40 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:54:51 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:56:04 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:24:34 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:28:58 PDT

Title

May-06-14 14:30:06 PDT

Title
PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted

May-06-14 15:08:10 PDT

PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted
Description

May-06-14 16:34:51 PDT

Shipping Terms

May-07-14 07:21:18 PDT

Description

May-07-14 07:21:54 PDT

Shipping Terms
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Dave » Thu May 08, 2014 8:17 pm

He has now lowered the price to $950 But It Now.

I guess he turned down the $1,000 cash offer
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby kentdun » Thu May 08, 2014 9:05 pm

He also switched it local pick up only.
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Re: FAKE EBAY SLOT MACHINE: TRICKY WORDING or STUPIDITY?

Postby Midcoast Vintage » Thu May 08, 2014 9:29 pm

HE ALSO NOW IS NOT INCLUDING THE STAND.
AD HAS NOW BEEN REVISED 12 TIMES.
Revision summary for item #321399493404

The seller has revised the following item information:
Date Time Revised Information
May-06-14 13:53:28 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:53:40 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:54:51 PDT

Description

May-06-14 13:56:04 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:24:34 PDT

Description

May-06-14 14:28:58 PDT

Title

May-06-14 14:30:06 PDT

Title
PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted

May-06-14 15:08:10 PDT

PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted
Description

May-06-14 16:34:51 PDT

Shipping Terms

May-07-14 07:21:18 PDT

Description

May-07-14 07:21:54 PDT

Shipping Terms

May-07-14 21:58:08 PDT

PictureURL: Pictures Added/Deleted
Description
Buy It Now Price
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