EBAY SCREWS ANOTHER SELLER, THEN LIES ABOUT IT ~ TYPICAL

[Midcoast Vintage]

BE SURE to read the comments at the bottom.
One of the comments speaks of the importance of recording any / all phone conversations with an ebay representative.
ALSO IMPORTANT: Every conversation with ebay has a reference number. ALWAYS get that number before ending the conversation.
It is your ONLY PROOF you will have that you EVER talked to anyone there.
read the article here:
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters ... 13711.html

[Anglobritish]

Gentlemen,
I think that Ebay should be put in their place, 90% of coin operated machines advertised on Ebay, is illegal, although Ebay advisers it's sellers to not ship to certain states, that is just a smoke screen to show the authorities that they are complying with the federal laws, this is not the case, Why,

1. Under the Johnson Act of 1951 and the updates to those acts, it is illegal not only to ship slot machines, Poker machines, Roulette devices as well as ANY PARTS OR SUB-ASSEMBLIES pertaining to a gaming device, under the Subessemblies and Partially Assembled, Disassembled and Sanitized Devices , Sections of the Act,

2 Although the Johnson Act goes back to the 1950's, over the years it as been updated to Modern Times as it is reffered to. Even Payout Pinball Machines and the well known Bally Bingo machines now come under the Act.

3. One might say that these machine are no longer Gambling Machines, but they are because the new parts of the
Act, only recognizes what the machine was designed for by the original Manufacturer. and what it was intended
for at the time of manufacturer, although sellers are selling fairly modern machines from the likes of Bally, IGT
and Altronics, all of those machines were designed for casino use.

4. All Ebay sellers in the U.K must hold a gaming license to sell any gaming devices on the site.

I think Ebay should be made aware of their actions in this matter, and let them know if they do not start helping to protect the innocent sellers of antique gaming machines, those sellers will inform the federal authorities and even bring a class action lawsuit against Ebay for restrictive practices, and restraint of trading.

Find attached the modern version of the Johnson Act, and a copy of the appropriate sections.

Freddy Bailey

Johnson Act Modern Day updates.pdf

(267.3 KiB) Downloaded 152 times

[gamblingman]

Couple of things to note in regards to the original post.
1. In many states it is illegal to record a phone conversation unless both parties are aware and consent to the recording.
2. The person who wrote the article is being a little on-sided in my opinion. As he explained "logically" later in the article...it is either the merchandise or the money. Why should he expect a windfall for an item he got back and was able to re-sell? Nothing in life is free, and keeping the money is as dishonest as the person who was scamming the purchase. And before anyone says that he had shipping costs, etc......I would reply that is the risk EVERYONE takes with a site like E-bay. They are just at third party facilitating a sale, and everyone goes into it knowing the risks. The upside is that you get a much broader audience, which hopefully translates into more dollars. The downside is that you also run the risk of scammers, damage, non-payment, etc. In a retail environment the risks are different...shoplifters, fire, flood, etc. Anyone that doesn't understand what E-bay is and more importantly IS NOT...should not be selling there. I'm sure many will disagree with my take, but this is the old cop in me talking today.

[YourBestBet]

Agree with gamblingman. I've been seeing a lot of whining and complaining on this forum. How about we keep the posts positive.

[Anglobritish]

I agree with many of the comments about Ebay, and it may be a that people want to sell their products there, but as a business man my time is too important to me, than keep going over and over with an animated voice, I just do not think it is worth the time it takes to try to get satisfaction. Like gamblingman said, you are not forced to do business with them I certainly do not. but when gamblingman says it must be the old cop in him, then does he not realize that Ebay are committing serious crimes by allowing sellers to sell gambling machines on their site. And should report any crime that he knows is being committed like any law abiding citizen. Nothing personal, just my observation.

Freddy Bailey

[terick2104]

If you are having a problem with Ebay then quit using the site. Don't get your shorts all in a knot and start quoting law as you see it. There are a lot of us honest buyers and sellers that use the site and we don't need your help.

[gamblingman]

Freddy, I agree with what you say, at least in principal.....but it is really hard to enforce. In the first place, the reason Ebay doesn't give a hoot is because they know that the crime of selling a machine in an illegal jurisdiction is nothing any prosecutor is going to come after them for. With all of the "real crime" out there, it is hard to imagine anyone taking them on. Now that doesn't mean I don't think they are right, however keep in mind one would have to prove "Ebay" had knowledge of the crime, and just WHO is Ebay anyway? I'm sure their legal team has determined that if they require the disclaimer, and police what they can by cancelling sales, etc (which I know they do on occasion), then they are making a good faith effort and complying with the law. Keep in mind, they are not making the sale, just facilitating it and taking a piece of the pie. It is still the responsibility of the person actually making the sale to comply with the law. And before anyone says "I called e-bay and let them know, so they have knowledge".....that really doesn't pass the test. I can call anyone I want and tell them anything I want, it doesn't make it true, and Ebay is not an investigative body, and they have no duty to do so. If one were to go one step farther, then the person that called Ebay is just as responsible if they know of a crime and don't call the cops to report it. Reporting to Ebay does not let you off of that hook.

With that said, I do believe there is a more responsible position Ebay could take, and there are things they could do to make the process better, but they don't. Gaming machines are just a very small portion of the fraud that goes on in their world every day. I've seen a lot of counterfeit merchandise bought and sold on their site. I have to admit, it do use them occasionally both as a buyer and seller, but in each case I go into the transaction knowing what the risks are. I've been taken a couple of times, and in one case lost a good sum of money (at least for me). I did what I could to recover what I could, and I notified Ebay of the issue, and then went on with life.

I don't say any of this to make light of anyone's experience with Ebay. I wish everyone in the world was honest and responsible, and I feel for those that have been taken.

[Billyzap]

Freddy you don't understand the mentality of our politicians.....the Johnson act was just a way of the federal government to give some teeth to local governments to help them defeat dishonest and corrupt elements. The laws governing slots and other gambling machines are governed by a state to stae laws.....here in Illinois a device that is 25 years and older falls into the area of legal to own antiques.....in Wisconsin anything goes....other states nothing allowed. Now if you start to create a ruckus about what is legal and not then it is much more easier for the law makers to just say outlaw it all.....and the same with ebay saying ok no slots at all. This makes it so much simpler for them. The gaming laws are pretty strict in illinois with the state being the biggest beneficiary of gaming here. Don't worry they are protecting their investment and not worrying about a few parts or slots going to a private residence. So why stir up the hornets nest?

[Anglobritish]

Hi Gamblingman and Billyzap I agree with your sentiments entirely, I am in the gaming machine business and have been for more than 60 years on a daily basis, . I have supplied evidence over Interlectual Property rights for some of the largest gaming companies in the world. this IDIOT terick2104 seems to think that I do business with Ebay, I do not, because I have the attitude that if you are burnt once, you stay away from the fire.

I do not give a dam about Ebay, but one thing I do know about is the gaming machine industry. Gamblingman put it very well and very elequently in his last blog, and Billyzap is correct when he says I do not understand the mind set of the American politicians.

I would suggest that those of you that doubt my credentials, regarding my knowledge of the industry, should go to the leading trade magazines for international reports on the gaming industry world wide and read the various articles that I have written over the years.(www.coin-opcommunity.co.uk ) Once again this IDIOT terick2104 as not got a clue about the feels of our industry, I wish him well, and maybe I should not give any more comments about the various subjects that are brought up regarding the coin operated machine industry in general.

To all the other interesting people that use this excellent platform, I wish you all health, wealth and a long life
Freddy Bailey
The Official British Coin Machine Historian

[gamblingman]

Was a cop and fireman/ fire chief for well over 25 years. The last 14 were as a gaming regulator, investigator, and administrator. I now run the central control and accounting systems for the 20 thousand distributed slot machines here in Illinois. Most of my experience is with the newer breed of slots, however I have collected and restored as a hobby for years. (Not that it really matters, lol)

I don't doubt your credentials Freddy, and if you come to the show this year let me know and I will buy the coffee.