Is this a US Rol a Top?

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Re: Is this a US Rol a Top?

Postby Dave » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:59 am

I also want to thank Watling Boy for taking the time and providing the group with such a detailed analysis.

In my opinion, too much information can never be a bad thing when it comes to learning about this stuff.

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Re: Is this a US Rol a Top?

Postby SLOT DYNASTY » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:15 pm

It is a shame, that a few think we are wasting our time, trying to inform the newbies in the hobby, what to
look out for in the way of Repro's, Fakes, and Crap that just isn't right. I guess they don't want us to alert the
newbies to something they may want to peddle in the future. As much as I hate to think of it, there are some
that have been in this hobby for a long time, that continue to misrepresent items they are selling on eBay.
And in no way, are most of the listed items history, before we get the word out, to inform the uneducated.
I will continue to inform the newbies, that have looked to our Forum for advise, as everyone that we can steer
away from the non-original items, the better the hobby will be for all of us. For the ones that really care, that is!
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Re: Is this a US Rol a Top?

Postby Midcoast Vintage » Wed Jun 10, 2015 3:30 pm

WELL SAID!
I agree with you 100%.
The more good information that is put forth for ALL to take advantage of, will hopefully aid in the prevention of someone actually getting taken advantage of.
Many of us have been in this for several decades... before there were books, magazines, manuals, newsletters, or, anything but the telephone, a friend, and very little knowledge or history available except for a few original catalogs, a few copies of Billboard, or The police Gazette someone had found.
This stuff was illegal, as in AGAINST FEDERAL LAW! We learned. We got laws changed. We got shows, auctions, and magazines going. We shared our knowledge, and, upgraded that knowledge when new factual information came along thanks to people like DICK BUESCHEL, LES DRUYAN, JOHN CALER, and others. There were magazines... LOOSE CHANGE, COIN SLOT, MECHANICAL MARVEL MARKETPLACE, and a few others.
All of these things helped promote the hobby of ANTIQUE slot machines, and, other coin-op & related items.
As with almost every other hobby eventually GREED comes along and screws it up. In our case, as with other hobbies... greed's new name was REPRODUCTION!
Most of us old timers...who came up the hard way, have fought against reproductions since they first appeared. Some of these reproductions have now been around for 40 years or more.
Does that make them an antique, or real? NO.
Granted, some will argue that they are antique...the legal description of an antique is generally accepted for cars, insurance, and other purposes... as 25 years or older, and this legal definition was used in the creation of the laws and statute permitting the legalization of ANTIQUE slot machines in many states.
So, some of these machines may now be legally classified as an antique, but, that still does not make them real. THEY WILL ALWAYS BE A REPRODUCTION.
So, along comes the "newbie", who wants a slot machine, but knows nothing about them. Should it be buyer beware? NO! Should he have done his homework first? Maybe yes, maybe no. Joe basement machine stumbles across a slot machine at a flea market, auction, garage sale, or, antique store. He knows nothing about them, never thought about them before, but... sees one, and thinks to himself "that is the coolest thing I have ever seen...I've got to have that!".
How could he have done any homework in that situation? As far as he knows, this could be the only one on the planet...hey, he's never seen one before! He knows it is buy it now, or, kick himself in the butt forever for missing out on the ultimate toy! Sound familiar? So, he buys it, and down the road finds out he has a reproduction. Do you think he's happy? Do you think this guy that has the dough to become a collector will look further?
Now, take the same guy, but, he thinks about it, plays it cautious, and goes home, hops on the computer, looks up antique slot machine on google, finds THIS site, and educates him self a bit, learns what to look for, learns to ask questions, take pictures, and learn a few things before taking the plunge, gets a good, REAL machine...and is happy. He wants more, and, more. Well, now we have another collector, who as he learns...quicker and easier than a lot of us were able to... gets to the point where he too is able to contribute, and, help others, and, maybe help one of his friends who becomes interested from making a mistake.
If the guys making reproductions, and, bastardizing & butchering machines don't have anyone to sell to...perhaps they will stop doing it.
The funny thing about this is... there is no shortage of real / original versions of a lot of the machines being reproduced. Some are not readily available, but, high-tops, half-tops, war eagles, castle fronts, bursting cherries, rol-a-tops and yes, even treasuries can be easily found and purchased...usually for less than what these clowns charge for reproductions.
The buffoons and crooks that are doing all of this obviously have some element of talent... why not use it constructively, and, honestly, and just restore an original machine, instead breaking the law, screwing people, and, possibly putting the unsuspecting "newbie" in a position to possibly be in violation of federal law?
Oh yeah.... GREED.
Seems greed, ignorance, and, stupidity go hand in hand.
As SLOT DYNASTY stated, he will keep hammering away at this until it stops, I am right behind him on this.
Last edited by Midcoast Vintage on Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is this a US Rol a Top?

Postby SLOT DYNASTY » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:20 am

WELL, I sure can't add much more to this! =D>
But, I will add one thing. Speaking of my late good friend, Dick Bueschel, we discussed the Repro Slots
at great length, from the time the first examples hit the market, like the "Lion Head". He felt the same
as I did, and was very adamant about Repro machines of any kind. Then came the "War Beagles", and it
never stopped. Even though he worked very close with the Harris's, for several years, with "The Coin Slot",
he didn't like all the CRAP they were producing. If Dick were still with us today, and sharing his knowledge
with this Forum, would any of the clowns building this CRAP, listen to what he has to say, and cease the
screwing of the new blood coming into the hobby? I personally do not think so, as GREED has a way of
taking a front seat to Friendship, and Honesty. There will 'Never-Ever' be another Dick Bueschel, whom I
miss dearly. We spent more hours on the phone than I can count, diving into the history of Coin-Op, before
most of the early collectors even cared. Now we all see, just what his persistence has delivered to us all.
The same can be said about the late Bill Enes, who studied, and covered the Vending machines in great
depth. There are also several others that have spent many hours compiling info, and publishing books.
All those printings, are what turns-on many of our Newbies into starting a collection. So let us not turn
them off, by feeding them Repro, Fake, Phoney, and whatever else we call them, for the sake of GREED. :^o
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Re: Is this a US Rol a Top?

Postby nvmos2 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:00 am

Very interesting;
It's good to know how Dick Bueschel felt about the reproduction machines; I don't remember him writing much about the sleaze in the hobby;
probably because he always seemed positive and enthusiastic about coin-op.
He also seemed to be a real gentleman and probably followed the rule: "if you can't say something nice about somebody........"

I'm sure the relation between Dick Bueschel and the Harris's was long and complicated.
In a letter to me in 1994, when Royal Bell was already pumping out reproduction machines, he referred to Rosanna as his "buddy" and was writing for her Coin Drop International magazine;
and they were working on getting Lemons, Cherries & Bell Fruit Gum published.
In the publisher's comments to the book, they describe Dick as their "good friend and oft mentor."
In his 3 pages of Acknowledgements, Dick gives them a simple nod for their help and encouragement in getting the book out.
When the book finally came out, the back of the book contained a 2 page ad for the Royal Bell repro machines,
giving the impression that Dick approved of that enterprise.

In the Publisher's Comments, Harris also claimed (referring to the book project) "Dick's view was the same as ours; if it's good for the hobby it ought to be done."
I wonder if the same standard was applied to the reproduction machine business.
Perhaps they somehow thought it was a good idea at the time; I wonder if they still feel that way today.

After decades of research and hard work, Dick left a legacy to the hobby in that book.
I don't know why he chose Royal Bell as publisher and allowed the ad for repros to be included;
perhaps it's like when a family member starts doing drugs;
you hate what they're doing, but you still love and support them.
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