Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

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Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby Walter Newton » Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:48 pm

I have this new addition to my collection, a Watling Blue Seal (Watling machine number 46), serial number puts it in the range of year 1929.

Original reel strips (as far as I can tell).

There are three bars on third reel.

One of the three bars either stops above or below the pay line, even though there seem to be nothing odd about the star wheel.

But if I manually advance the third reel, the bar either "clicks" in place above or below the pay line.

There are 20 symbols on the third reel, yet this bar seems to have a "mind of it's own."

All the symbols line up across all three reels, there doesn't seem to be any problem with slippage on the third reel strip, it's firmly crimped in place, yet this bar just stops above or below the pay line, it won't "click" in on the pay line.

Am I making any sense.

It's almost acting like a "near miss" symbol, like we saw for a while on the stepper motor, more modern slots, which most gaming jurisdictions outlawed "near misses."

What's happening? Any guesses?
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby jmisatu » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:10 pm

Are there 10 or 20 teeth on the center portion of each reel? If there are 10 teeth and 20 symbols, the reel can only stop on every other symbol so 10 do not get used on each reel.
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby Walter Newton » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:26 pm

jmisatu wrote:Are there 10 or 20 teeth on the center portion of each reel? If there are 10 teeth and 20 symbols, the reel can only stop on every other symbol so 10 do not get used on each reel.


Good point, I will have to check.

If this turns out to be so, then what you are telling me is that this is a ten-stop machine with 20 symbols on each reel.

Is this a cheat?

Did they come that way out of the factory, or was it a special order?

Just curious.
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby Walter Newton » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:51 pm

Ok, there are only 10 stops on each reel, yet the reel strips have 20 symbols on them.

It's only because the third reel has the brake wire missing, that I noticed a "bump" sometimes when the third reel stopped. And that's when I noticed the bar not having a "stop" point.

Should this machine have 10 symbol strips on the machine?

Or was this a "feature?"

When a winning combination comes up, payouts are spot on.

Any insight?
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby jmisatu » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:21 pm

Do either of the bars on the third reel have any involvement in any payouts themselves? 20 symbols on the reel strips were factory and 20 symbol/20 stop reels were already used in the 1930's. An early 30's or late 20's machine would most likely be 10 stop reels with 20 symbols on the strips. Symbol spacing may be erratic on the third reel strip possibly making symbols not line up centered in the viewing window. I'm not that knowledgeable but I think what I am saying is reasonably accurate.
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby marsonion » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:34 pm

Walter Newton wrote:Ok, there are only 10 stops on each reel, yet the reel strips have 20 symbols on them.

It's only because the third reel has the brake wire missing, that I noticed a "bump" sometimes when the third reel stopped. And that's when I noticed the bar not having a "stop" point.

Should this machine have 10 symbol strips on the machine?

Or was this a "feature?"

When a winning combination comes up, payouts are spot on.

Any insight?


The deep insight is that you have a typical 10-stop three-reeler of that vintage: practically all of the manufacturers prior to 1935 put 20-symbol strips on their 10-stop reels. In other words, in any old, 10-stop clunker, the symbols you see above and below the payline are fake... those symbols are only there to make the suckers think they "just missed" a big payout... see how they get ya?!? The only machines I can think of that "honestly" displayed only the ten "real" reel symbols on their 10-stop mechs are the ones that hardly had left room in the reel window to do otherwise: Mills QT's and Columbias. (I think perhaps you started tinkering with a Columbia as your introduction to old slots, so you may be viewing these things from an unusual vantage.) But even there, I have two early Columbias featuring 20-tiny-symbol reels on their 10-stop mechanisms, so... people are just no damn good! :^o
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby Walter Newton » Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:09 pm

Thanks Marsonion.

No, I'm not new to slots, but my past collections have been primarily electro-mechanical console machines (Like Keeney and Bally consoles), and more modern Bally E-series.

Mainly because that's all I could afford, and back in the 80s-90s, no one wanted those "boat anchor" Keeney Super Bell and the likes. SO, I was able to pop those kind of machines for $50-$100.

I just got back into collecting again.

This Watling is the oldest full-sized machine I have ever owned, so there is a learning curve, on my part.

I remember when early CPU driven stepper motor reel machine came out, some could stop on a "near miss," and I believe the gaming laws quickly said "no" to that, so it was a surprise to me that I find (as I've found out so many times before), "near miss" is not a new idea.

All the symbols line up perfectly, and when a win comes up, it is paid correctly.

Thanks to all who gave input on my questions.
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Re: Odd bar behavior on 3rd reel Watling Blue Seal

Postby Walter Newton » Fri Mar 12, 2021 4:12 pm

P.S. Marsonion,

Yes, I do have a Columbia that I am totally restoring, right down to repairing a water-logged cabinet (it's in pieces right now). I got the mech working like clockwork, cabinet is my next part of the project.
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