Tavern Bogus Marque?

[nvmos2]

Got this photo off a FB chat group;
it's a "restored" Tavern with the name cast into the marque.
I thought all original Taverns had a name plate attached to the marque with 3 pins.

Has anyone else got or seen a Tavern like this?
I suspect it is bogus and the marque or entire top casting have been faked.

Tavern?

[capt7310]

This is the one I have and I've seen several and they all look the same, as both, hope this helps somewhat, but I'm not a expert but I think it's legit just been recondition.

[nvmos2]

This is the one I have and I've seen several and they all look the same, as both, hope this helps somewhat, but I'm not a expert but I think it's legit just been recondition.

Sorry, but I'm afraid that you have one of the many fake Taverns; converted from The Little Prince.
Whelen (RIP) has stated in another thread that they were not produced using this front casting.

My question for this thread; did Groetchen produce a Tavern with the name cast into the marque or do all original Taverns have a separate name plate attached to the marque with 3 small pins?

(you were up late last night! lol)

[nvmos2]

Coincidentally, another "restored" Tavern with the name cast into the marque has just been listed on FleBay.

[capt7310]

It's my understanding that Groetchen used the same machine design and used several variations with the same machine such as the Tavern, Ball Gum, Penny Smoke, and more, my design I think might have been used on the Ball Gum, but again I think it's legit, just my opinion.

[nvmos2]

It's my understanding that Groetchen used the same machine design and used several variations with the same machine such as the Tavern, Ball Gum, Penny Smoke, and more, my design I think might have been used on the Ball Gum, but again I think it's legit, just my opinion.

Your Tavern has The Little Prince front casting.
I'll refer you to the late, great Bill Whelan writing in this forum (topic Bogus Trade Stimulators);

" the Tavern was only produced with the front casting having a 3 vertical bar design to the right of the award card area. Some have shown up with the flowery broach design to the right, and most of that design had the award card frame as part of the front casting, and was not the removable 4 screw frame style. Then of coarse, they will all have reproduction reel strips & award cards. These phoney’s are only being done to demand a higher price for the more popular Tavern model. I have even talked to three of our seasoned collectors, that have been snookered with a phoney. Two have the wrong front casting, that was only on the "Little Prince" variation."

And, referring to the “Las Vegas Butcher”;

"Groetchen "Little Prince" - Here again, we have what is probably the 40th to 50th BOGUS Tavern that this clown has made-up over the years. The Ball Gum lettering was ground out of
the top casting, to mount the recast Tavern plate. Most of all, the lower front casting of this special model, was never-ever used on a Tavern variation, along with the repro beer strips
and award card."

I'm still hoping this thread will elicit some expert opinion/knowledge as to whether the name Tavern was ever originally cast into the marque.

[altort]

Been a wile since I have posted on here but seen this one tread and wanted to share what I know.
The cast in TAVERN is correct I have an all original never restored TAVERN with the cast in marque, it is unfortunate that the two you are refereeing to are over restored and will cast doubt to potential collectors looking to purchase.

Unfortunately capt7310 nvmos2 is correct, I have had many conversations with Bill Whelan about bogus machines and the Tavern was one of the most often faked, Groetchen never made a TAVERN version of the LITTLE PRINCE, and by taking a closer look at your LITTLE PRINCE I can clearly see that the TAVERN marque is a recast that was pinned on, looking at the pins one can see that they are too close to the edge and I can also make out were the original hole was closed off by the letter "T", also besides the different front casting the LITTLE PRINCE upper casting and back door was also different that the three bar version of the DANDY VENDER

[nvmos2]

altort;

Thank you!
That's exactly the info I was looking for plus a lot more good info.
Very interesting!

[capt7310]

Altort/Nvmos
Thanks for the great info, even it's not what I want to know, but all good and thanks again, I still love the machine and it looks very cool with my bar.