...about fake slots...

[RameGoom]

Just wondering about that the clone machines that were made many years ago: Is it possible that THOSE machines could be considered "vintage" or even "antique" in their own right?

Sort of like a phony Castle Front being advertised as a vintage reproduction. If it sits long enough, it could potentially be called an antique - but adding the word reproduction becomes an oxymoron. Not sure how that works. Any thoughts about this?

[Midcoast Vintage]

LEGALLY, something can be considered antique when it is 25 years old.
that said, once an item becomes legally an antique, that does NOT make it real.
a reproduction (clone / re-manufactured / replica...or any other supposed justification / lie descriptive word) will ALWAYS be just that.. a fake.
AGE DOES NOT CREATE AUTHENTICITY.

[RameGoom]

I agree. But I think it's gonna be an uphill battle to prevent the cloners and butchers from jumping on the legal aspect of an antique. There has got to be some sort of rating for these machines, be it a serial number requirement or some authentication to maybe regulate what's legit and what's not. Every time I look at a Lion's Head or Cherry Front machine, I'm hesitant to even ask, as there are so many clones out there being represented as original.

[Midcoast Vintage]

the clowns that are reproducing / faking machines will never get it.
they will lie to justify their actions (justify... you know... like how drug addicts lie to JUSTIFY their actions ) using words like re-manufactured, restored (there is a difference between restoring a machine and re-creating a machine), and use plenty of other B.S. terms and descriptions for their product... all designed to lure in the unsuspecting... or, in other words to screw whoever they can.
as far as regulating them... they are breaking the law now in a couple of ways... the johnson act, fraud, copyright / trademark violation (names like GOLDEN NUGGET" are copyrighted, and the golden nugget logo is a registered trademark)... so.. do you honestly think that a new law stating "OK FRAUDSTERS... YOU MUST NOW REGISTER / LABEL / SERIALIZE YOU FAKE / FRAUDULENT ITEMS". will hinder them, or help the hobby? no, in fact it will confuse it even more, as, the serial numbers will work their way in to the legit serial number records being kept by historians and collectors.
also, as has been mentioned in other posts... castings, plating, woodwork, stampings, and, labor are all costly... how are these clowns making any money?
obviously they have talent... why not use it constructively on REAL MACHINES?
rare / collector grade machines aside, THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF LEGITIMATE SLOT MACHINES!
you could buy 100, or probably 1,000 high tops, half tops, silents, chiefs, and other commonly reproduced "basement / rec room grade machines any day of the week with no problem... and they would be original, and / or restored original machines for FAR LESS than you would have to pay for a reproduction. again... why do these guys bother, and, jeopardize their reputation and integrity by messing with the fakes? they could make more money, which is obviously why they are in the business ( notice i did not use the word hobby... many of us are NOT in it for the money... many of us actually love the machines for the history, and mechanical aspects of the machines) by dealing in real machines.
perhaps... just perhaps... if a few of these fraudsters were taken to court, and got a hefty fine, and did some jail time... word would get out and possibly slow down the never ending flow of fake machines.
seeing the fraudsters actual name in print may get a few of them to curtail their actions. these clowns know who they are, and, know that what they are doing is wrong, illegal, and hurts the hobby, and hurts those they screw. they have no conscience, or respect for others... including their own family, because, if and when they ever were to be charged / arrested / fined / jailed for their fraudulent actions, the stigma will flow over onto their entire family. their greed obviously take precedence over their family.
again, as i stated in the first line of this reply... the clowns that are reproducing / faking machines will never get it.

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Just wondering about that the clone machines that were made many years ago: Is it possible that THOSE machines could be considered "vintage" or even "antique" in their own right?

Sort of like a phony Castle Front being advertised as a vintage reproduction. If it sits long enough, it could potentially be called an antique - but adding the word reproduction becomes an oxymoron. Not sure how that works. Any thoughts about this?

To answer your question in very few words, is: A Reproduction machine of any kind, will always be a Reproduction,
regardless of when it was put together, and should never be considered an antique, vintage, or whatever else the
Chop-Shops choose to call them.
Most of this all started in the 1980's, with the Mills "Lion Head".

As many of you already know:
Some machines are using original mechanisms, but have brand new wood case, recast front & top castings, new
back door, coin box, and many times, an incorrect style handle. Many repro's of the "War Eagle", and others, have
a complete new repro mechanism, as well. None of these can be classified as Original, no matter what kind of B.S.
story, the seller may have contrived. If one of these Repro's was built last week, it is considered a 2014 machine,
(by law, which never seems to be enforced), NOT one from the 1930's - 1940's, and in most all collectible States, is
considered Totally Illegal. Several collectors in the past, just in California alone, lost their entire collections, from
law enforcement confiscations, by dealing in illegal machines, and had long court battles, just to get their older,
legal machines back, but still had to pay the hefty fine for the others. I haven't heard any of these horror stories
for some time, but it 'just isn't worth it'.

The other classification, just under Repro machines, are the FAKES, and the "Golden Nugget" tops the list. I can't
understand, for as long as we have been preaching about these, that the word has not traveled as far as we have
hoped, because they are still being sold on fleaBay, and live auctions. If a non-collector wants one of these phonies
for their game room, and pays no more than $800, that's not unreasonable, but we have to keep all our newbies from
getting Snookered. If all the newbies get directed to Dave's U-Tube video, about 'how to tell the 1000's of Fakes, from
the 'Very Few' Originals that are known, that's a big step.
Additionally, these Fakes should also cover the "Golden Nugget" HighTop versions as well. And let us not overlook those
"Hole-In-One" Golf version, and "Grand Slam" BaseBall version Fakes, as well.

[nvmos2]

Actually, RameGoom raises an interesting point concerning a certain class of reproductions; those that were made contemporaneously with their Mills counterparts for the use of operators in gambling locations.

When the topic of reproductions comes up, we invariably think of the 1970s and later machines made by individuals or small companies for sale either to individuals as reproductions made for home use or, more often, fraudulently to collectors who bought them thinking they were original machines.

We often forget that back in the 1940s, dozens of companies were reproducing Mills cabinets, sticking used mechanisms in them and selling them to operators. Many had mostly Mills interior parts and were sold as revamps, but others were sold as the “latest models.” Buckley copied so many parts they ended up with their own line of Bell machines. The copy-cats got so bad that Mills started issuing a Certificate of Manufacture with each machine, starting with Black Cherry serial number 483301. See Lemons, Cherries and Bell Fruit Gum, pages 172 and following.

When found, these vintage reproduction/revamps have all the patina of a period machine and, undoubtedly often end up with owners who believe they have a totally original Mills machine. The topic of these vintage reproductions was recently raised but, unfortunately, got side-tracked by an offensive posting (by someone whom I’m sure is usually a fine fellow). Revampers mostly gave slots an entirely new look, but when they flat out copied the Mills machines, they were giving us vintage reproductions which, unlike modern reproductions, surely must have some collector interest/value.

[markymarkuk]

Just don't understand anyone going to so much effort to reproduce a complete reproduction, even the mechanism!!!!! Crazy!!! They must have to spend weeks casting, milling, filing, bolting together these fakes, surely, as someone else mentioned earlier, how do they make any money.. it baffles me!!!!

I don't think you'll ever stop this nasty line of business (its not just slots, but fake handbags, t-shirts, trainers, perfume etc..), but just wish sellers were honest when advertising that they state that it's repro and not a genuine article.
I just appreciate this website forum and listening to the voices of experience, and hopefully never get "stung" with a repro.

Shame the "general public - non collectors" don't have the foresight to research before they buy.