COMPOSITE MILLS SLOT ON EBAY

[Dave]

The funny thing here is right now there are two for sale on ebay so the idea that it is just parts thrown together holds no water. The other one link is above and it does have the stickes for mills and why you say well it was bought outside of chicago. It was illeagal to buy and sell slot here in chicago funny thing look up the history of mills and chicago lock and key funny how things work out. And by the way 800 for parts to machines that havnt been made sence 1937 that is really low ball try to find those parts today and good luck with that.

It seems I have got multiple stories from this guy as well. In addition, he says that I have contacted the other castle front / futurity owner (which I have not). Even if I had how would he know? He also claims that I am contacting a bunch of other people about their machines on eBay.

I see he has changed the listing on the ebay listing. He now states that since there is another Frankenstein machine out there then that proves Mills made them? Oh really???? So with all the total reproduction War Eagles that show up because there are two or more of them on eBay is proof that they are original?

Why would Mills put a working gold award bottom casting on a machine which does not have gold award award card, reel strips or a gold award mechanism?

Also, how is it possible for Mills to put on a handle that was not even invented yet on a machine.

Didn't he originally say he bought this machine at an auction?

He also told me that we was at a show many years ago and some original Mills workers came by to look at the machine. Hmmm, if that machine was made in say 1935 and the workers were say 35 years old and let's say these workers stopped by and say him in 2000 (13 years ago). Then those workers would have been 100 years old

If Mills actually made such a machine wouldn't it have appeared in some literature?

Regarding $800 for really being a low ball offer for parts. There were some fully restored Castle Fronts that sold at the last VCA auction for $900 + the juice.

Finally, he has received more than one negative feedback. Here is what one of them said

AVOID THIS SELLER! A complete whack job, thoroughly nasty and sick in the head.

[lbjteck]

Really you pull that up Iguess you forgot to add that the guy stole disks from that set and I guess you forgot to say it was sold with no issues to someone else for the same price guess you forgot to talk about that to. I guess you have sold on ebay have you? NO you havnt bought or sold anything sence 2011 so what you messing with other sellers when you dont know whats going on? Now as for the handel I am sure after over 40 year of use things break right? I am sure I allready told you the coin holder was missing when we got the machine. I am sure that every machibe you work on has no new parts in it or you havnt chnaged parts out, I am sure you know all of the 583 machines mills made? I bet you just know it all right? I know i sure as hell dont and I sure as hell that i never claimed I did. I know the paint has alot of detail and you can feel the details of the metal below that paint. I know there wasnt abnother color below because the paint chips dont have others colors in it. I know this machine is not perfect nor have I ever said it was. I never told you when i met thouse three guys not once I even told you i would have more infor the the real buyer. So there are the facts and I would really like it if you all three of the guys that have wrote to me stop telling lies about what i said I have all the emails sent back and forth ebay doesnt delete you email.

[Midcoast Vintage]

you have just proved the point we have have been trying to get across to you in a couple of your statements.
we do know more about machines than you do, which is why we are trying to help / educate / inform you on what your machine actually is.
we collectors and historians have studied thees machines, we have the original (or re-prints) of original mills catalogs, and other literature, and books that have been written on the subject of slot machines.
also, you admit that a handle could get replaced due the original being worn, or broken...SO... why couldn't the same thing happen to a front casting?
an old time operator would not throw a machine away because a handle got broke... he would replace the handle with whatever he had that fit and worked.
that makes perfect sense. NOW... following your logic... an operator also would not throw away a machine because of a broken front casting.... he would do the same thing he would do in the broken handle scenario.
would miils put it out as it is now? NO. the machine did not leave the mills factory the way is is, including the paint job. that is an old "operator" paint job.
i, nor anyone else... from what i have read in this forum, has actually called you a liar. i, and the other collectors here are trying to help you, but obviously you you are unwilling to accept facts, logic, or our help.
why do we take time out of our lives to do this? because we care about our hobby, and want to educate the newcomers to the hobby so they don't get burned, and lose interest due to getting burned.
we do not like reproduction machines, ( I AM NOT SAYING YOURS IS A REPRODUCTION) but, we do realize and accept that in certain instances, a reproduction part may be necessary to complete a machine. but, that does not MEAN YOU CAN TAKE ONE ORIGINAL BOLT, AND HAVE EVERYTHING ELSE BE NEW, BUT BECAUSE YOU STARTED WITH AN ORIGINAL BOLT YOU NOW HAVE A RESTORED MACHINE. YOU DON'T. a new collector who finds he got burned on a repro, will lose interest almost immediately.
THERE IS A H-U-G-E DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "RESTORATION" and a "RE-CREATION". unfortunately, many of the fraudsters out there tend to be quite "creative" in their choice of words in their descriptions ... their " descriptions" would be more correctly called "deceptions".
secondly, we do not like to see inaccurate description of machines, ... WHETHER IINTENTIONAL, OR FROM LACK OF KNOWLEDGE.../ as this also can cause a new, but uneducated collector to get burned, and lose interest... AGAIN... THIS IS WHY WE ARE TRYING TO HELP / INFORM / EDUCATE YOU. the people that are trying to do this are among the most seasoned, and most knowledgeable people on old coin-op machine in the hobby...many of us have been doing this for over 40 years... we love the machines, and the hobby, subsequently... we study it, confer with others to ferret out knowledge, and factual information. when we started, machines were illegal, and there was no internet.
we had know who we were talking to, we worked hard to get laws change in most state to allow ownership, and work to expand the hobby.
so... when you are offered FREE INFORMATION FROM THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE PEOPLE IN THE SLOT MACHINE HOBBY... BE GRATEFUL... BUT, ALSO BE GRACIOUS ENOUGH TO ACCEPT WHAT YOUR MACHINE ACTUALLY IS... BASED ON FACT AND KNOWLEDGE FROM EXPERTS.... AND CORRECT YOUR AD DESCRIPTION.
your machine is not, and, never will be what you were told / what you believe it to be / what you want to believe it is.
have you ever heard the old saying "CRAP IN ONE HAND... WISH IN THE OTHER... SEE WHICH GETS FULL FASTER?"

[altort]

I have been following this post and I cant believe that this guy is questioning and insulting the experts that are truly knowledgeable about the subject of vintage slots and only trying to educate him, I went back and re read his listing and now he is trying to state that since there is an other on ebay with the same combination of castings that mills made them that way, what he did not point out or did not want to admit to is that the other slot's upper casting is an earlier casting with the rectangular award card, correct handle, correct lock and it is priced accordingly for what it is.
I also sent this guy an email on the things that he failed to point out on the comparison he has made to the other slot but I know he wont do any thing about it.
If he was an honest person with any integrity he would change his listing knowing the facts.

[Dave]

...I never told you when i met thouse three guys not once I even told you i would have more infor the the real buyer. So there are the facts and I would really like it if you all three of the guys that have wrote to me stop telling lies about what i said I have all the emails sent back and forth ebay doesnt delete you email.

Here is what you said in one of your ebay responses

I went to a show many years ago to get another machine and there were some workers from mills there talked with them and they caam by to see the machine.

and in another response you said

I will not get into a arguement with you when over twenty years ago i talked with three guys myself and they cam over rto my place.

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

[Dave]

Actually, this guys nastiness is not that unusual.

In the past, I have received offers from people who want to sell their 'original' Golden Nugget.

When I get a picture and tell them they have a fake some get really upset and insist it is an original. Most people are appreciative of knowing what they have but man, a few just totally wig out.

As we have all told this guy, he does not have a reproduction, just a machine made up from parts of other machines.

[altort]

Just as I thought his reply to my email to him was negative, copied and posted below.

first I dont see a questions here. The fact two slots for sale that look the same means this isnt some junk thrown togethere. Second many years ago I talked with workers from mills three of them to be exact and there the ones that told about special order slots and a bit of chicago history with mills and chicago lock and key. Do not tell me what to do !

[altort]

And this is his second reply to me.

Listen my story has not chnaged one bit ill leave it at that you guys want to play with words but I am done talking about this you guys dont seam to see what is right infront of you there are two out there for sale right now open your eyes. Oh that you again for saying this didnt happen i wold say that the chicago historical socity has tons of info on mills may want to check them out. oh another thing there was a story in the chicago sun times saying a group is trying to get under a building here in the city that has confiscated slot machines from the 30s 40s and 50s.

[lbjteck]

Ok I have 4 people telling me my macine is a fake not real I have sending me messages threatning me on ebay and telling me what to do altort didnt you tell me i better pull my machine? I told you not to tell me what to do your very rude to me on e bay. I am tired of all the attacks

first message from alttort
You truly believe that you have a rare and slot? your slot is a put together slot from pieces of other machines, the other slot that you are referring to is an early castle front with the rectangular award card from early thirty's, not the newer oval from the mid thirty's and up, so the lower casting was not made in that period and never assembled at the factory but replaced at a later time, also the upper casting is wrong color and painted over the polished parts, no paint on the lower casting, the other machine has the correct handle for that period and the wooden skids are also correct un like yours that are totally wrong in every way.the other seller knows that he has a incorrect slot and he is not making any claims that it is like you are and he also priced the slot appropriately for what it is.Following the postings on the forum I know that you have been told about your slot, so ether list your slot correctly and do justice to the collector hobby or remove the listing.

[lbjteck]

here is the slot machine i am talking about both the top and the bottom is the same as mine

http://www.ebay.com/itm/380657228792?ss ... 1423.l2649