NO MORE SLOT MACHINES ON EBAY!

[SLOT DYNASTY]

Bravo 777......You have hit the nail on the head!

Personally, I don't usually waste my time with long-winded comments to all these clowns that are selling repro slots on eBay, although some choose to make a career out of it. I have only written to one other seller of a repro War Eagle, only because they did not know why the mechanism was moving around in the case while being played. I explained why it was happening, and at the same time, told them about all the other indications of it being a repro. They chose not to believe me, and would not add to their discription just because of what I thought. Well, so be it!

As for the guy in Ohio, that's a useless case! I've heard eBay has shut down more than one of his auctions, because of numerous complaints from collectors. But he will keep on doing what he has always been doing, which is screwing the poor souls that don't do their homework before placing bids.

Now, because of this forum group, I did take notice of this current War Eagle, when it was first listed as #6146521195 at $1,500.00, and wrote to He or She, and mentioned everything, almost word-for-word, that 777 & watlingboy has said. They didn't bother printing my comments, as I guess by then, they had already caught enough flack from others. Now it is relisted under #6148322771. I do not believe one single word that they choose to list in their description. They know full-well what they are selling,
and need to be shut down, if they can't speak the truth, and sell accordingly. I don't have a problem with people that list exactly what they have, and price it within reason. There have also been some bogus Trade Stimulators that have been put on the block this past year, and the sellers know exactly what they have.
But that's another story for Paul Harvey!

Also, cudo's to watlingboy, who seems to be one of the few left in the hobby, that remembers the late John Caler, who was at the beginning of all these repro's. I was good friends with John & his son, for many years, and remember him putting the first War Eagles together in the late '70s to early '80s, in his shop in Sunland. He also had a thriving business with his new figural slots with sound, and all, that he had patterned himself. John also dealt in many high quality original machines as well. The showroom
very seldom had an empty space.

On a final note: Let us not get our skivies caught in the crack over all this repro crap! It's never going to go away. There are just too damn many on the market now to try and police. There was even a partially repro'd Watling "Roll-A-Top" at a local auction, a couple of years ago, and I had to laugh out loud when I seen the Red plastic reel bundle, and bogus
non-operating rotary escalator. It was so bad, it looked like a movie prop.

Cheers

[777]

Looks like the seller reduced the minimum price on that reproduction War Eagle and found two suckers to start bidding on it.

The current bid is $900

[Ric Gandy]

Not that it matters, but I contacted the seller and suggested that she consider reducing the amount of her opening bid. I pointed out to her that because of all the controversy surrounding her machine, she was going to have a hard time getting an opening bid of $1,250 on eBay and that she might be better off running an ad in the local paper. I also pointed out to her that regardless of what anyone else might think or say, her machine did have value and was probably worth $800.00 to $1,000.00. Some people don't care if this slot machine is an authentic 1931 Mills War Eagle or not. As long as it looks good and works good, that is all they care about. I don't know who "krusty48" is, but "buy2ksell" is a coin op guy from Florida who I have dealt with before who knows exactly what he is bidding on and recognizes a relative bargain when he sees one. I doubt either one of them would appreciate being called a "sucker". Be that as it may, it looks like the machine is going to sell for about what it is worth and I think that is a good thing. This seller has an absolute right to sell her machine on eBay and I think she bent over backwards to be as truthful about her machine as she could be under the circumstances. She did not have to include the various questions and answers in her description. She may not have included them all, but she certainly included enough of them to put any potential bidder on notice that there was some legitimate question about the authenticity of this machine. Not sure what else she could have been reasonably expected to do under the circumstances. Ric Gandy in Lafayette, Louisiana.

[777]

I don't know who "krusty48" is, but "buy2ksell" is a coin op guy from Florida who I have dealt with before who knows exactly what he is bidding on and recognizes a relative bargain when he sees one. I doubt either one of them would appreciate being called a "sucker".

Why would a "Coin Op Guy" buy a reproduction War Eagle unless he is going to try and sell it thus perpetuating the fraud on to someone else? So, you are probably right, he is not a sucker, just a guy who is looking for a sucker to sell the machine to. He is probably smart enough not to try and sell it on E-Bay, but if he had a store front he could try and sell it there, or perhaps at a local auction.

I can't imagine any collector buying a reproduction and displaying it, he would sure catch crap from any other collector who looked at his collection.

Thanks for the warning on buy2ksell.

[Ric Gandy]

I was going to drop out of this "discussion" because quite frankly I have had enough of it, but this last comment from 777 serves a response. What part of this don't you understand? Not everyone who buys a slot machine is a collector. Some people just want to have a nice looking machine that plays well and they could care less whether it is 73 years old or brand spanking new. The remanufactured, i.e. brand new, machines that are sold by Royal Bell and the other people who sell them aren't cheap. You can easily pay $1,800.00 or more for one of these machines. I did not issue any "warning" about "buy2ksell". I said he was a coin op guy who knew what he was bidding on and who knew a relative bargain when he saw one. "Buy2ksell" got outbid by "krusty48". The machine sold for $908.00. I don't have a clue who the high bidder is or what he plans to do with it, but I know people who given a choice of paying $908.00 for a 44 year old reproduction or $2,500.00 or more for a real one would buy the reproduction every time. This sort of person just wants a slot machine. They don't want to collect them and they could care less whether it has the correct handle and all of the rest of it. As long as it looks good and plays good, they are happy. I bought an unusual Mills hightop from "buy2ksell" for a friend of mine who likes hightops. The machine was exactly as described. I have absolutely no problem with this seller. Why would you assume that if "buy2ksell" got it he would try to palm it off on someone else as an original? What in the hell is the matter with you? I am a collector. I am not a dealer. But if I was a dealer or sold slot machines on a regular basis, I think it would probably be a good idea to have something on hand for the buyer who asks "Don't you have something a little cheaper?" As long as the seller is honest about what he is selling and the buyer knows what he or she is buying, I could care less what they do.

[krusty48]

Hello everyone I'm krusty48,and I have been reading all the things that have been said about this war eagle slot machine that I bought on Ebay.I'm not very happy with some of you and the direction this is going.I have been collecting these things for about 40 years now infact I started when this hobby wasn't very popular.I am not a SUCKER or nor do I have something crawling up my backside as to what some of you have referred to and yes my name is GIL the one that told everyone to put there money where there mouth is.I am not going to tell people what i am going to do with this machine because its no ones business but my own.But it will most likely wind up collecting dust just like the rest of the junk we coin-op collecters have.As far as repro vs. authentic theres a couple of others on Ebay right now that in my opinion are repros also.My concerns are that collecters have lost what the hobby is suppose to be and thats (FUN) and enjoying the things you collect.I didn't need this machine I already have 4 of these war eagles and there not repros but I bought another one knowing that its a repro,isn't that what we as collecters do buy crap that we don't need?Well anyway in my opinion all you guys are acting like a bunch of old ladies and a couple of you it sounds to me like sour grapes.

[777]

.... Some people just want to have a nice looking machine that plays well and they could care less whether it is 73 years old or brand spanking new. The remanufactured, i.e. brand new, machines that are sold by Royal Bell and the other people who sell them aren't cheap. You can easily pay $1,800.00 or more for one of these machines. .... The machine sold for $908.00. I don't have a clue who the high bidder is or what he plans to do with it, but I know people who given a choice of paying $908.00 for a 44 year old reproduction or $2,500.00 or more for a real one would buy the reproduction every time. This sort of person just wants a slot machine. They don't want to collect them and they could care less whether it has the correct handle and all of the rest of it. As long as it looks good and plays good, they are happy. .... But if I was a dealer or sold slot machines on a regular basis, I think it would probably be a good idea to have something on hand for the buyer who asks "Don't you have something a little cheaper?" As long as the seller is honest about what he is selling and the buyer knows what he or she is buying, I could care less what they do.

Well, this has been a lively discussion .

You brought up lots of points. I would have no problem (well not as much of a problem ) if reproduction machines were marked on the machine as being a reproduction to make it clear to the person buying the machine what is exactly what he is getting. Without marking a machine it is so easy for the seller to claim ignoreance on the whole matter.

I am not a dealer either. But if someone cannot afford a War Eagle there are other options, (high tops, Castle Fronts, Poinsettias, Columbias, etc.).

I still maintain the seller was not as naive as he/she pretended to be (see my earlier walks, talks like a duck discussion).

Regarding $908 being a relative bagain. This thing is mising a jackpot. I don't know what jackpots sell for but I would bet around $100. Add another $100 for shipping and the machine is over $1,100 (I didn't even include the hassle of finding & installing a new jackpot).

The last I heard the wholesale value on reproduction machines (with jackpots) is $900. I think anyone can purchase a repro. machine for this price if they are known as a collector/dealer and contact Roya Bell or the other people who make them. Therefore, I still maintain the high bidder paid too much.

However, it is his/her money and as long as they know what they are buying then that is fine with me.

[rogers1313]

I collect machines for several reasons:
I enjoy the old mechanical devices that were engineered so well that they still work today. They may have had there handles pulled 50,000 to 100,000 pulls. With a little work they are back to working condition again. And so far I have been able to make everyone of them work.

I like the original vintage machines 189? to 1950 because they have a story to tell. Where have they have been? Who owned them? Were they in a legal place or an illegal place? Did Al Copone own any of my machines? When they first arrive after I have purchased them, it seems they carry a ghost of the past.

One of my machines was broken into through the jackpot window and the the strap on the back had been ripped off. It would be fun to know when this happened. I have another machine that was probably left in the back of barn. The wood was all delaminated. The mechanism a total mess, the metal parts corroded with exposure. I always feel it is a priviledge to get to bring one of these back to an almost new machine.

The reproductions don't carry any of the qualities that I have mentioned above, no ghosts in the machines.

I think we all are enjoying a very unique hobby or profession as in some cases.

My too bits to this discussion.

[rustydog14]

Hi,

I've been bidding on eBay auction machines for a few years. There was never a time when I won an auction where the slot machine came to me as described. The last machine I purchased was a Mills Token Bell w/ Mills metal stand. The machine was described as a 9 out of a 10. It actually was a 4. Unfortunately the pictures could not be enlarge, and I did not ask the right questions.

The question is: Who is making the judgement call, and what are the standards being used? Is it a nice, unrestored original when paint is peeling on the cabinet and/or castings, when the glass is delaminating and the cabinet base needs repair or replacing, is it good that it has original parts even thought there is rust throught, how many machines are available with "all" original locks, reel strips, cash boxes, etc.

I'll once again try to match paint colors (it's going to be hard to match two different green hammer tone paints). My point is "BUYER BEWARE". Of the machines I own, two are reproductions and they look and work great. Some of the originals I own have been repainted, parts changed, case restorations, etc. If a person wants a nice reproduction machine (Royal Bell calls them remanufactured), then that's great as long as it is stated in the auction.

[Ric Gandy]

I don't know where 777 heard a collector could buy a reproduction War Eagle from Royal Bell and/or the other people selling these reproduction machines for $900.00, but I think I am starting to see the problem. This guy reminds me of some of my discussions with my late father. Even if he did not have his facts straight or have any clue about what he was talking about, that did not stop him from voicing his opinion. I finally realized that we weren't "talking" about the way things actually were, but the way he thought they should be. Once I came to that realization, our "discussions" went a lot smoother. I hate to screw up a good opinion, but lets add a little factual information to the discussion. I have referred to Royal Bell several times. They are located in Denver and are manufacturing their "Mills Classics" slot machines through their subsidiary "Mills-Bell-O-Matic". A google search led me to their website at www.royalbell.com. Once there, I checked their list of the nine Mills Classic machines they are building and found the following information listed for their version of the War Eagle:

WAR EAGLE This model is circa 1931. The castings are nickel plated and then hand painted with a yellow background. The eagle is highlighted in red and black. The machine automatically pays all left to right winning combinations with 2 coins being the smallest amount for one cherry. The highest pay is the jackpot paying 20 coins from the coin tube and whatever amount is in the jackpot (behind the window in the lower center of the machine). The machine is remanufactured by skilled technicians. It is made by MILLS BELL-O-MATIC in the Royal Bell, Ltd facility in Denver. The machine weighs approximately 100 pounds. $2295.00 plus $25.00 packing. Shipped freight collect.

They were running a $100.00 off special in November and December and there may be some dealer discount I am not aware of for anyone buying their machines in volume, but that is it. The current price is $2295.00, plus $25.00 packing, plus shipping, for anyone not living in the Denver area. Lets assume $100.00 for shipping. So that means a Royal Bell reproduction War Eagle is going to run you approximately $2,420.00 to your front door. If there is some secret collector/dealer password or handshake that lets you buy this same machine for $900.00, I am not aware of it and I am probably sure we would all like to hear about it.

So I repeat what I said earlier, I think the repro War Eagle that "krusty48" bought was a bargain at $908.00. Our boy assumes that "krusty" is going to want a jackpot on that machine and even though he says he does not know what a jackpot costs, he assumes it must be another $100.00. Neither of us have a clue where "krusty" lives, but he assumes that the machine is going to have to be packed and shipped and that adds at least another $100.00 to the cost. Even if all of this is true, I would still call $1,108.00 versus $2,420.00 a relative bargain.

As for the rest of it, I agree with most of the recent comments from the various collectors who felt the need to weigh in on this discussion. I am a collector. I do this as a hobby for fun. It is not a blood sport with me. I enjoy helping people whenever I can. We are all chasing the same stuff and occasionally we bump into one another. Unfortunately, that goes with the territory.

Now to change the subject, can anyone turn me on to a plater who does good work at a reasonable price? If you are into authentic 100% original machines, there is nothing worse that having that original part ruined by some clown who does not know or care what he is doing. I was using Courtesy out of Illinois until they melted the back bonnet on a Super Deluxe Club Chief because somebody forgot and left it in a tank. On the same job, they managed to break a handle hub into two pieces, welded it back together, did not bother grinding down the slag or reaming out the hole, plated it and sent it back to me like that with no note or explanation of what happened. I guess they thought I wouldn't notice that the handle would no longer go through the hub. Good help and good work is hard to find.