"AS-IS" Condition Auction Bidding Question???

[continentalII]

Hi all...

New here to the board.

I'd like to pose a question to you. What are your thoughts on auction houses that list machines in 'as-is' condition, yet send you misleading info when you request photos, more detailed description, etc on an item?

Just curious. I'm no novice when dealing with coin-ops but not a total expert. I generally know a fake when I see it but am especially aware when condition grading is WAY off.

I recently did some buying with an auction house, asked questions and for more photos of the item and was shocked when it arrived at my door.

If you were given misleading info and photos that only showed the positive yet none of the negative attributes, how would you deal with that?

Any thoughts are appreciated!

[radiorich123]

HI

Never buy at auctions unless you are there in person and inspect the item.Most auctions houses are not that well informed on slots and dont want to tell you details. GOOD LUCK Buyer beware!!!

Rich

[continentalII]

HI

Never buy at auctions unless you are there in person and inspect the item.Most auctions houses are not that well informed on slots and dont want to tell you details. GOOD LUCK Buyer beware!!!

Rich

Thanks for the reply, Rich.

For the most part, I agree. This was not a slot, but rather an arcade fortune teller. The photos and description showed it to be basically sound. The mech needed attention and the cabinet needed to be returned to it's original paint pattern. Other than that, all appeared well.

I asked in advance for detailed info on the problems and photos. What they told and sent me were incredibly misleading...to the point of fraud. The photos showed the upper part of the cabinet in pretty good shape. What they neglected to show me was the base which had been standing in water at some point and is completely moisture rotten. It smells like a dead alligator is in my living room.

I was hoping for a machine with general issues and a fun restoration period. This thing is completely thrashed.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I ask questions about condition, I don't expect to have the worst aspects of the condition conveniently "left out". This is a very well established auction house although they do not specialize in coin-ops. they definitely know better than to leave out such blatant issues from an inquiring bidder.

I'm in the process of negotiating it's return and I'm hoping they will do the right thing.

Yet another painful lesson learned!

[Dave]

Every auction I have ever been to states you are buying the machine "as-is where-is". In other words buyer beware!!!! I agree that you should always be there of have someone there on your behalf to check out any items you are interested in.

Although I really don't care for eBay they are much more buyer friendly than a traditional auction house. If you get a item which is not as described you can usually get a refund if you follow every rule of eBay to the letter. I think you are usually stuck on paying the shipping though.

I rolled the dice once and purchased a Watling Treasury from an auction over the phone. I got it at such a good price that it was worth the gamble and fortunately it was a good machine.

I would be surprised if the auction house returns your money. The only time I have heard of that is if the buyer is a frequent buyer who spends big dollars at the auctioneers other auctions and they might be afraid of losing his future business.

Good luck on it and keep us informed.

[marsonion]

Yes, good luck! Always assume the worst and count your blessings when items arrive in a state that resembles in any way, shape or form that which was described and/or represented in your absence. It is a sign of moral integrity that you are bewildered by your experience: you wouldn't do anything like that to anybody, so you can't believe it was done to you. I've got news for ya! I wouldn't expect you to believe my story, but I will tell it anyway.

I "won" an eBay auction of a Caille Dictator a couple week ago. It is the same machine depicted here, the red one:

http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detai ... me_id=1942

The item was described thus:

For auction antique Caille Brothers dictator 10 cent slot machine. The slot machine is in very good working order with no breaks, cracks, repairs or issues that I can see. Everything works as it should. The only issue I can see is that the coin tray on the inside is made out of an old tobacco tin pop riveted together. The slot machine can be padded and packed properly in a wood crate, insured and shipped to the terminal in your nearest major city for 125.00 or less depending on your location. Home delivery is also available. The machine can also be picked up in person. We do not trust cardboard box carriers for this shipment due to the weight and fragility. Please ask questions before bidding

Three layers of 1" bubblewrap and corrugated cardboard cartons were sufficient to protect my other four '30s Cailles in shipment-- they're built like Sherman tanks, after all-- but I agreed to these steep prices because this is the rarest and most expensive machine I've bought. (I have a strange affection for these despised late-model Cailles... they malfunction in the weirdest ways, it's always something different going wrong, and I've repeatedly joked that they alone restore a sense of "gambling" to the antique slot collecting hobby. Plus, they're pretty cheap when bought as junkers.) That's how I ended up with the sloppiest slot delivery in my experience, ever: I had to travel to the airport and uncrate the merchandise with a borrowed crowbar and lots of sweat since the crate wouldn't fit into our cargo space, and I had to chase all the foam peanuts and buy bags to pack them away in my trunk because I wasn't allowed to dispose of these materials at the freight company which refused to carry this burden any further. Then we transported my precious cargo to my business as a passenger seat-belted into my car... all of 18 miles. All this work, delay and trouble, along with the added insult of paying more than twice what I've ever doled-out for FedEx Ground to deliver right to my door.

When we pulled the garbage bag off the machine, I was thrilled to see dimes in the escalator. I'll admit I expected a few mechanical issues since the reserve jackpot in one set of pictures was obviously collecting coins above an empty JP; still, I enjoy fixing things like that. We played the machine a while, but I was dismayed to see that double cherries didn't feed even the reserve jackpot level. Finally we ran out of dimes and decided to raid the coinbox for more. I pulled out the makeshift coinbox and found three dimes... surrounding a long-dead mouse! My wife screamed.

I see now that a mouse dropping appears in the bottom center of a posted reel window picture, but I didn't recognize it for what it was. Also, another picture clearly shows the inside oak cabinet all chewed-up at the lower left, where the critter was probably trying desperately to escape. I should have paid more attention to the provided pictures; I now know how to recognize the distinctive signs of mouse damage. Watch for those little details! Also, I should have been much more concerned about what specifically wasn't shown in the pictures, such as side and front views of the mech. Only a rear view with the door off was provided, which showed a substituted mechanical clock but conveniently did not allow a view inside the cashbox.

After delivering last rites and burying the rodent at sea (flushed down the toilet), I made a thorough inspection of the mech. Some goob had removed at least five parts of the check-detector and JP replenishment apparatus and carved a hand-feed into the front casting as if that made up for it. So much for everything working "as it should." There is an obvious, huge weldment scarring the right side of the escalator casting. So much for "no breaks, cracks, repairs or issues." More pertinent, though, is the fact that the pile of coins depicted in the reserve on eBay were missing upon arrival, indicating that the sellers got in there and removed them... they couldn't have accomplished that without seeing the mouse in the makeshift cashbox. That they didn't exhaust the coin tube or escalator only testifies to their ignorance, as they surely would have done so if they knew how.

Now, do you think I would bother contacting the people who crated, insured and shipped me a dead mouse with any complaints?

[continentalII]

marsonion...

Well, at least you have some recourse. Ebay, for all its pros and cons, attempts to make it a somewhat safe environment for buyers. Let's face it, when we send money to a stranger, hundreds/thousands of miles away, you are taking a risk. You can file a complaint with ebay and usually get your money back.

When dealing with an auction house, especially an established one, you'd hope for some type of ethical business practice.

I understand everyone's attitude about not trusting an auction sale and the whole 'caveat emptor' thing, but I think just chalking that up that the buyer made a mistake by even bidding is letting them get away with murder.

When an auction house misleads you on a transaction, they are stealing your money. This is no different than them sneaking into your home and stealing your underwear. A thief that holds you up at gunpoint and robs you is being more honest.

How there is any toleration of that and a 'buyer beware' common attitude basically let's them off the hook. Theft is theft. It should be treated as the crime it is and not sluffed onto the victim as something they should've known better.

I can tell you this, I will get my money back...one way or the other.

[marsonion]

I didn't mean to come off unsympathetic-- on the contrary, I really "feel your pain," as he used to say. Nor did I mean to "blame the victim," i.e. you. I really hope you get your money back, too, and that you keep us informed of your efforts on that... however, the point of my story is that you can't deny that some among us have reason to be pessimistic.

As for me, I'm keeping my Dictator. I've already done plenty of cleaning and disinfecting, and have been busy fabricating functional substitutes for the missing parts. If I ever sell the machine, I will be entirely and explicitly forthcoming about its history and condition-- I'm sure you would do the same.

[continentalII]

I certainly took no offense.

I just believe that the "buyer beware" attitude can become so accepted, that it almost enables this type of fraud.

We honest collectors should root out this type of stuff and make it very clear that crime is crime. If you sell something and are not completely forthright, there are consequences.

Whether that will happen or not is another story.