Rapestoration

[marsonion]

Another thing that hacks me off: There is a mirror-shiny 5c Grand Prize on eBay right now, fetching respectable bids so far (item# 150984433926) without meeting reserve, and the gavel is scheduled to fall within hours. The glossy pictures which the bidders are no doubt finding so attractive include a couple front views of the mechanism. Compare these with the image I'm posting here of a (presumably) unrestored GP. Notice the difference--? That's right, the glistening "restored" machine lacks that fascinating snail-looking gizmo which, after hitting a Jackpot, causes a dollar's worth of nickels to drop out of the escalator to refill the JP over the next twenty pulls, then stops (from there, nickels continue to feed the JP on each 2C+B and 2C+L until it's full, then they get shunted to the cashbox). I don't doubt that these parts were simply discarded by the "restorer" since they are not necessary for the machine to play-n-pay... and sell to anybody who doesn't know any better. I've seen enough machines raped in this fashion and it really annoys the hell out of me when I get hold of the remains. Oh well, I hope the eventual buyer of this glittering item never finds out how it's been violated, and how a really cool and clever device that by all rights should be theirs had simply been dumped into the trash by somebody who probably couldn't figure it out and couldn't give a flyin' F about it anyhow.

Just venting.

[nvmos2]

That is a major component missing!
Either the seller is unaware of this or is intentionally misleading with the description.

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt since he says he is selling it for a friend,
maybe he does not realize it's missing.
He's no stranger to coin-op, but truthfully, had you not pointed this out, I would not have noticed the missing part since I'm not familiar with this model.

It's a little late at this point, but did you happen to inform the seller of this earlier in the auction?

[marsonion]

I got the impression from the blurb that this seller and the "restorer" were not one and the same person, and I didn't want to launch into yet another back-and-forth, sez-you, diff'rent-strokes exchange with yet another interested party invested in denial. His sales blurb even implies that some GPs have hydraulic timers in them, but not this one! Really, I wouldn't know where to begin setting all of this straight, so I wimped on making an official case out of it. Like I said, I've seen enough of the results of this sort of malfeasance showing up in my own shop-- missing/discarded parts for interesting and authentic but nonessential functions, I mean-- that I just had to blow off some steam about what I'm calling "rapestoration." This eBay item is but one example, unfortunately.

I figure Bill is already handling the "misreprestoration" battle with great brio, so I've removed my grumbling to another front...

That is a major component missing!
Either the seller is unaware of this or is intentionally misleading with the description.

Giving the seller the benefit of the doubt since he says he is selling it for a friend,
maybe he does not realize it's missing.
He's no stranger to coin-op, but truthfully, had you not pointed this out, I would not have noticed the missing part since I'm not familiar with this model.

It's a little late at this point, but did you happen to inform the seller of this earlier in the auction?

[SLOT DYNASTY]

No, Bill is not handling anything with this jewel. He is voicing his grumblings elsewhere in this forum.
Where it is needed the most, in spite of what others may think. Very few have stepped up to the plate.
Which I appreciate, by the way.
Bill

[terick2104]

Maybe the part was missing when the seller purchased the machine, as is often the case. It looks like a decent restoration and the seller knew what he was doing. Caille machines are not the easist to restore.

[marsonion]

As I indicated above, I'm venting frustration that some of these "top restoration artists" out there apparently engage in the subterfuge of dropping into a can any parts that might get in the way of the most bare-bones play-n-pay functionality and presenting the item as "restored." I say they haven't been restored-- they've been raped. I've bought other machines where similar bombastic claims were made by the seller only to find that the entire check detection and jackpot feed mechanisms had been jettisoned. Despite all this, I'm not trying to persecute the enthusiastic seller (who from his words is clearly not the "restorer")-- he probably truly isn't aware and is just another victim of this practice. I disagree that the "seller knew what he was doing" since a little research would've revealed the big gaping hole where the special 20 coin JP feed ought to be. As to the "better than new" appearance of the thing, that in itself can be considered a form of "misreprestoration," but I'm not complaining about that here.

When I got my Grand Prize, this device-- let's call it the "snail"-- wasn't working. Fortunately, it was stuck in the passive mode so it wasn't interfering with play. I found a broken spiral spring to the "snail wheel," replaced it, cleaned out several decades of aggregated muck around the levers and dogs, rewound the ratchet, and off it went! When you hit a JP, the "snail" rapidly spins nearly 360 degrees, tipping a lever which locks open the bottom of the escalator so nickels drop into the JP. Then each pull cocks the snail about 18 degrees until the lever finally drops into the notch at the full return position of the snail and the escalator closes again. It's a really cute device. Sad to see it's gone on this one.

But you're right: Cailles are not the easiest to restore. A few months ago, a buddy brought over a GP he just bought at VCA-- but his "snail" was stuck in "drop" mode, preventing any nickels from making it up the escalator into the coin tube, which is an untenable situation. We fixed that in a jiffy (same spring, different problem), but some other "restorer" might have simply pulled the whole device out (as appears to have happened with this eBay item), found that the machine plays "fine" without it, and just dropped it into a can; after all, the JP will be fed anyway, slowly, on each CCB and CCL payout. But I don't call that "top-notch, expert restoration." I call it rape.

Maybe the part was missing when the seller purchased the machine, as is often the case. It looks like a decent restoration and the seller knew what he was doing. Caille machines are not the easist to restore.

[watlingboy]

So here it is in a nut shell. If you are selling it for a friend and don't know much about it or if it is your own machine and you are not an expert, present it that way, "Here's a machine which looks nice, you be the judge." Don't write a four page appraisal about how it is a ten out of ten and how rare it is, it's not rare, if you don't know.

Watlingboy

[marsonion]

Go for it, Watlingboy! We'll leave it to you to take on the overblown, misleading claims of the sellers... my dog's in a different fight right now.

So here it is in a nut shell. If you are selling it for a friend and don't know much about it or if it is your own machine and you are not an expert, present it that way, "Here's a machine which looks nice, you be the judge." Don't write a four page appraisal about how it is a ten out of ten and how rare it is, it's not rare, if you don't know.

Watlingboy

[nvmos2]

This Caille sold for $2800.
I would love to have one of these restored to original;
if I were the buyer on this one, I would be VERY DISAPPOINTED when I eventually learned that it was missing the "snail."
The snail is a neat, distinctive feature of this machine.

I made a wrong statement earlier in this thread; the listing does not indicate he was selling it for a friend.
Sorry; I must have been thinking of another listing I'm watching.

The listing for this machine clearly indicates;
the seller is a long time coin-op collector (35 plus years).
He's had this machine in his personal collection for many years.
He's in Southern Calif. area and the machine was restored by a "top restoration artist for antique slots in Western US."

A couple hours before the auction ended, I contacted the seller and told him about the missing part.
He was receptive to the input, saying he had no idea it was missing; and since he didn't restore the machine, it's been that way since he had it.
I kinda doubt he'll mention it to the buyer.
Don't know if I've ever met him, but he signed his email Steve L.;
some of you guys may know who that is.
As a long time collector, he may even be monitoring this forum;
Steve, are you here? If so, what say ye?

When I see an item on ebay that I know is misrepresented, I usually contact the buyer.
Unfortunately, about half the time, the seller just blows me off (figuratively).
But about half the time an honest seller will either revise the description or post my comments for bidders to see.

This forum can help keep ebay honest;
when I see the experts here discuss a misrepresented machine, I often notify the seller and refer him to this site and the thread that has the correct info.
That has had an effect on several listings.
When the seller does nothing and it's really gross misrepresentation, I have even made the extra effort to contact the buyer after the auction is over.
In at least one case, it resulted in the buyer getting his money back.

[marsonion]

Thanks, nvmos2! I greatly appreciate your efforts and obvious integrity in diligently contacting buyers and sellers with full disclosure regarding what they have or are getting. My complaint here, though, is directed at the so-called restorers. If they hadn't sleazed-off their responsibilities we wouldn't be here wasting words and getting on everybody's case about what they're buying or selling. It's the "restorer" that's to blame here-- not his victims. And let's not forget that the poor machine is among the victims! That's what I'm saying.

Thanks again-- and keep it up!

This Caille sold for $2800.
I would love to have one of these restored to original;
if I were the buyer on this one, I would be VERY DISAPPOINTED when I eventually learned that it was missing the "snail."
The snail is a neat, distinctive feature of this machine.

I made a wrong statement earlier in this thread; the listing does not indicate he was selling it for a friend.
Sorry; I must have been thinking of another listing I'm watching.

The listing for this machine clearly indicates;
the seller is a long time coin-op collector (35 plus years).
He's had this machine in his personal collection for many years.
He's in Southern Calif. area and the machine was restored by a "top restoration artist for antique slots in Western US."

A couple hours before the auction ended, I contacted the seller and told him about the missing part.
He was receptive to the input, saying he had no idea it was missing; and since he didn't restore the machine, it's been that way since he had it.
I kinda doubt he'll mention it to the buyer.
Don't know if I've ever met him, but he signed his email Steve L.;
some of you guys may know who that is.
As a long time collector, he may even be monitoring this forum;
Steve, are you here? If so, what say ye?

When I see an item on ebay that I know is misrepresented, I usually contact the buyer.
Unfortunately, about half the time, the seller just blows me off (figuratively).
But about half the time an honest seller will either revise the description or post my comments for bidders to see.

This forum can help keep ebay honest;
when I see the experts here discuss a misrepresented machine, I often notify the seller and refer him to this site and the thread that has the correct info.
That has had an effect on several listings.
When the seller does nothing and it's really gross misrepresentation, I have even made the extra effort to contact the buyer after the auction is over.
In at least one case, it resulted in the buyer getting his money back.